Tournament thoughts
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- Lancer
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sep 9, 2015
- ESO: Supernapoleon
- Location: Munich
Tournament thoughts
Hey, I just want to give a bit of input and feedback about the currently tournaments. First of all, I really appreciate the great work and effort that were put into these tournaments.
What I found out is, that many player around pr 23-31 (including me) get hyped and sign in for the main tournament. Now what is happening is, that many of them (almost all) get executed in the group stage/ro126/ro64. These series are all bo3 and very short what is unfourtunatly. Many player just play their main civs (often european civs) that they know the best, but still are out after a couple of tedious games.
Hosting the Second Chance tournament is nice for them, but not a solution. The main hype goes to the main event. Additionally the second chance tournament has the same pattern. Only bo3s in the early rounds.
What I suggest is that the early rounds of the main tournament are longer (at least bo5) so the player who get knocked out eaely still can play a decent amount of games and actually enjoy more the tournament. These series can be also very exeting so I do not get why they are that short.
If the second chance tournament still should be hosted can be discussed.
What I found out is, that many player around pr 23-31 (including me) get hyped and sign in for the main tournament. Now what is happening is, that many of them (almost all) get executed in the group stage/ro126/ro64. These series are all bo3 and very short what is unfourtunatly. Many player just play their main civs (often european civs) that they know the best, but still are out after a couple of tedious games.
Hosting the Second Chance tournament is nice for them, but not a solution. The main hype goes to the main event. Additionally the second chance tournament has the same pattern. Only bo3s in the early rounds.
What I suggest is that the early rounds of the main tournament are longer (at least bo5) so the player who get knocked out eaely still can play a decent amount of games and actually enjoy more the tournament. These series can be also very exeting so I do not get why they are that short.
If the second chance tournament still should be hosted can be discussed.
- aligator92
- Howdah
- Posts: 1519
- Joined: Feb 27, 2015
- ESO: aligator92
Re: Tournament thoughts
It's funny that you post this because I had planned to post something after the tourny to express my content with how the current tournament and 2nd chance tournament were set up this year for 1st lt-majors. I personally gor to enjoy a nice group stage with active scheduling, an interesting RO128 and a RO64 match which was much more interesting for me, Uhlan and viewers than expected. And now I can look forward to a 2nd chane tournament with a lot of similarly skilled players. And I actually prefer the BO3 system employed in the early rounds because I don't like to play for more than 2 hours straight and BO5s can drag out if you have one long game in there. Also when the time comes where you get crushed by a much better player it is less frustrating to be done after 2 game instead of getting stomped three times.
Different opoinions, I am curious how others feel about this.
Different opoinions, I am curious how others feel about this.
Re: Tournament thoughts
Making it a BO5 means that we can stream less games, because it will take longer. It also means that less skilled players have to master more civs, which can be hard and thus leads to lower quality games. In case there are no civ restrictions (group stage), you will just see more people playing the same civ. For example 3x French or 3x British (in a BO5).
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My AoE3 Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/MCJim_
Age of Streaming YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AgeOfStreaming
- aligator92
- Howdah
- Posts: 1519
- Joined: Feb 27, 2015
- ESO: aligator92
Re: Tournament thoughts
I wanted to add that applying civ rules to group stage matches might be a good idea
Re: Tournament thoughts
This feedback is cool, back when I was still in the media team the tournament experience of the pr20-30 group was my main concern. I think the 2nd chance tournament at least gives the more active players of that range a chance to actually dream about winning it all. In the end people always get knocked out early no matter what you do, but it's fun to imagine that if you get lucky you win it. Last time around at least 2nd chance was a big succes.
I feel indifferent about your suggestion. Five games take pretty long you know, sometimes even up to 2.5 hours. Would make getting games played even harder.
I feel indifferent about your suggestion. Five games take pretty long you know, sometimes even up to 2.5 hours. Would make getting games played even harder.
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- Lancer
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sep 9, 2015
- ESO: Supernapoleon
- Location: Munich
Re: Tournament thoughts
MCJim wrote:Making it a BO5 means that we can stream less games, because it will take longer. It also means that less skilled players have to master more civs, which can be hard and thus leads to lower quality games. In case there are no civ restrictions (group stage), you will just see more people playing the same civ. For example 3x French or 3x British (in a BO5).
Well, I partly aggree. There are barely games streamed of the Second Chance tournament and pr 23-31 can also play different civs. Furthermore I think it would be interesting to see not always the best bos and to see a bit varity in games.
For instance I lost to Victor in the main tournament and if I have won my first series I would have faced Victor again in Second Chance.
Re: Tournament thoughts
supernapoleon wrote:MCJim wrote:Making it a BO5 means that we can stream less games, because it will take longer. It also means that less skilled players have to master more civs, which can be hard and thus leads to lower quality games. In case there are no civ restrictions (group stage), you will just see more people playing the same civ. For example 3x French or 3x British (in a BO5).
Well, I partly aggree. There are barely games streamed of the Second Chance tournament and pr 23-31 can also play different civs. Furthermore I think it would be interesting to see not always the best bos and to see a bit varity in games.
For instance I lost to Victor in the main tournament and if I have won my first series I would have faced Victor again.
The group stage should really be a BO3, we will run into problems if we'd extend it. However, after the RO128 I'd say it's up for discussion.
My AoE3 YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MCJimAgeofEmpiresIII
My AoE3 Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/MCJim_
Age of Streaming YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AgeOfStreaming
My AoE3 Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/MCJim_
Age of Streaming YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AgeOfStreaming
Re: Tournament thoughts
You are in the media team every other week.Jerom wrote:back when I was still in the media team
Pay more attention to detail.
Re: Tournament thoughts
Fewer series, but actually more games, since the number of waits between series is smaller.MCJim wrote:Making it a BO5 means that we can stream less games, because it will take longer.
Pay more attention to detail.
Re: Tournament thoughts
Gendarme wrote:You are in the media team every other week.Jerom wrote:back when I was still in the media team
That is a false statement, impressively false even.
Re: Tournament thoughts
Not sure I agree with it going to a Bo5 for group stage but I think a civ restriction would be good so people can't play the same civ 3 times over.
“To love the journey is to accept no such end. I have found, through painful experience, that the most important step a person can take is always the next one.”
Re: Tournament thoughts
Gendarme wrote:Fewer series, but actually more games, since the number of waits between series is smaller.MCJim wrote:Making it a BO5 means that we can stream less games, because it will take longer.
I don't think that's what we want. We just want to give a lot of players an opportunity to get streamed as well. It can sometimes be an extra motivation for one to play (better). Also it leads to less YouTube videos which gives a negative effect.
My AoE3 YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MCJimAgeofEmpiresIII
My AoE3 Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/MCJim_
Age of Streaming YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AgeOfStreaming
My AoE3 Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/MCJim_
Age of Streaming YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AgeOfStreaming
Re: Tournament thoughts
Thank you for the feedback!
Amount of Games Played
This has been an area of focus for us as Jim pointed out. I feel like with second chance we have really gotten it right. Players have an opportunity to play at a minimum 4 BO3's even if they lose every game they play. At best a "2nd chance" player could play 6 Series in the main event, then another 6 Series in the 2nd chance event. My guess is the average player would play around 6-7 Tournament matches in our current format. In short, the amount of games played is on par with high level players.
Stream Coverage
We will continue to prioritize the main event over second chance. That is the reality of the world. We have limited casters, staff, and time in the day on the weekends. That being said, take a look at the line up we pulled together this weekend. Features tons of 2nd chance matches. We are looking to cover the 2nd chance event. You also will see full coverage when the main event ends and 2nd chance is in late stages.
Length of Series and Civ Rules
Civ selection is not restricted in the group stage to increase accessibility. Any bracket match has the civ rules, so the diversity of your civ pool starts to get tested more as you get further in the event. Shorter matches are easier for us to cover, easier for players to play in, and easier on players who may not have as deep of civ pools.
Amount of Games Played
This has been an area of focus for us as Jim pointed out. I feel like with second chance we have really gotten it right. Players have an opportunity to play at a minimum 4 BO3's even if they lose every game they play. At best a "2nd chance" player could play 6 Series in the main event, then another 6 Series in the 2nd chance event. My guess is the average player would play around 6-7 Tournament matches in our current format. In short, the amount of games played is on par with high level players.
Stream Coverage
We will continue to prioritize the main event over second chance. That is the reality of the world. We have limited casters, staff, and time in the day on the weekends. That being said, take a look at the line up we pulled together this weekend. Features tons of 2nd chance matches. We are looking to cover the 2nd chance event. You also will see full coverage when the main event ends and 2nd chance is in late stages.
Length of Series and Civ Rules
Civ selection is not restricted in the group stage to increase accessibility. Any bracket match has the civ rules, so the diversity of your civ pool starts to get tested more as you get further in the event. Shorter matches are easier for us to cover, easier for players to play in, and easier on players who may not have as deep of civ pools.
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- Lancer
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Sep 9, 2015
- ESO: Supernapoleon
- Location: Munich
Re: Tournament thoughts
_H2O wrote:Thank you for the feedback!
Amount of Games Played
This has been an area of focus for us as Jim pointed out. I feel like with second chance we have really gotten it right. Players have an opportunity to play at a minimum 4 BO3's even if they lose every game they play. At best a "2nd chance" player could play 6 Series in the main event, then another 6 Series in the 2nd chance event. My guess is the average player would play around 6-7 Tournament matches in our current format. In short, the amount of games played is on par with high level players.
Stream Coverage
We will continue to prioritize the main event over second chance. That is the reality of the world. We have limited casters, staff, and time in the day on the weekends. That being said, take a look at the line up we pulled together this weekend. Features tons of 2nd chance matches. We are looking to cover the 2nd chance event. You also will see full coverage when the main event ends and 2nd chance is in late stages.
Length of Series and Civ Rules
Civ selection is not restricted in the group stage to increase accessibility. Any bracket match has the civ rules, so the diversity of your civ pool starts to get tested more as you get further in the event. Shorter matches are easier for us to cover, easier for players to play in, and easier on players who may not have as deep of civ pools.
I aggree with the idea but in practise im facing the same opponents i already lost in the main tournament as I mentioned eralier.
Anyways I like that are as many games streamed as possible. However I would only upload the best series and highlights on the youtube channel but in time.
Youtube: Quality>Quantity
Twitch: Quality<Quantity
Just a few suggestions feedback i wanted to give, I am quit now
Re: Tournament thoughts
Feel the opposite - Happens in every sport/event. I am getting more hyped as the tournament goes on.
If you want to go further you have to get better, the second chance tourney is a great way to get some more games in.
If you want to go further you have to get better, the second chance tourney is a great way to get some more games in.
Re: Tournament thoughts
supernapoleon wrote:_H2O wrote:Thank you for the feedback!
Amount of Games Played
This has been an area of focus for us as Jim pointed out. I feel like with second chance we have really gotten it right. Players have an opportunity to play at a minimum 4 BO3's even if they lose every game they play. At best a "2nd chance" player could play 6 Series in the main event, then another 6 Series in the 2nd chance event. My guess is the average player would play around 6-7 Tournament matches in our current format. In short, the amount of games played is on par with high level players.
Stream Coverage
We will continue to prioritize the main event over second chance. That is the reality of the world. We have limited casters, staff, and time in the day on the weekends. That being said, take a look at the line up we pulled together this weekend. Features tons of 2nd chance matches. We are looking to cover the 2nd chance event. You also will see full coverage when the main event ends and 2nd chance is in late stages.
Length of Series and Civ Rules
Civ selection is not restricted in the group stage to increase accessibility. Any bracket match has the civ rules, so the diversity of your civ pool starts to get tested more as you get further in the event. Shorter matches are easier for us to cover, easier for players to play in, and easier on players who may not have as deep of civ pools.
I aggree with the idea but in practise im facing the same opponents i already lost in the main tournament as I mentioned eralier.
Anyways I like that are as many games streamed as possible. However I would only upload the best series and highlights on the youtube channel but in time.
Youtube: Quality>Quantity
Twitch: Quality<Quantity
Just a few suggestions feedback i wanted to give, I am quit now
Yeah, this is more an issue of community size and skill level. This problem gets worse the higher you get btw. I only play this game with < 5 people unless I am goofing around on smurfs.
Re: Tournament thoughts
It's like Europa League & Champions League for football
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- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
Re: Tournament thoughts
0 water play, zero indonesias, zero all related to water.
Lol.
Then wonder why Boneng for example doesn't like these tournaments.
Lol.
Then wonder why Boneng for example doesn't like these tournaments.
- princeofkabul
- Pro Player
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Feb 28, 2015
- ESO: Princeofkabul
- Location: In retirement home with Sam and Vic
Re: Tournament thoughts
water shouldn't even exist in this game cause it's so badly made so it's just good we don't have to see that crap.
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Leader of the Shady Swedes
Team Manager of the Blockhouse Boomers
Re: Tournament thoughts
somppukunkku wrote:0 water play, zero indonesias, zero all related to water.
Lol.
Then wonder why Boneng for example doesn't like these tournaments.
xD now tell me because of whom that's the case
Re: Tournament thoughts
We need to have a balanced random map generator. Fuck all these cheaters who study the maps beforehand.
Pay more attention to detail.
- Challenger_Marco
- ESOC Media Team
- Posts: 2689
- Joined: Nov 23, 2015
- ESO: challenger_marco
Re: Tournament thoughts
Yeah exactly I agree with gendarme point , there must be random map generator as a good player must know to play good at any situation, and I think players must play atleast 1 water map as a good player must know to play in water 2! A player must know to play in all kind of situations and that guy is the best player right? The reason for this tourney is to find out the best player right? I think they must able to play good no matter what!
Re: Tournament thoughts
So what civ would you pick for such a „map"? A TP, water, non-TP one? Or just Russia?
Re: Tournament thoughts
Gendarme wrote:We need to have a balanced random map generator. Fuck all these cheaters who study the maps beforehand.
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