Dutch vs Germany matchup

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Switzerland Aenarion
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Location: Biel Switzerland

Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by Aenarion »

Hey guys
In the ESOC Spring Tournament more precise the RO32: Hazza54321 vs __UhLaN__ game 2
We have seen Hazza playing Dutch vs the Germans of Uhlan. Appart from the funny confusion Uhlans name caused there
was the common oppinion in the chat, that this matchup is heavily Dutch favoured.
Hazza ended up winning the game. This confirmed my thouht of Dutch beeing a quite okey Civ. vs Germany.
I don't really get why it should be Germany favored, this is due to the mere fact, that Dutch has the mutch better age3 composition.
Ruyter beat war wagons costeffectively with their rangeresist, where as war wagons have mele resistance.
Furthermore i think if Dutch makes some pikes or hus they can be fine against the usual Uhlan raids in age2.

I am looking forward for some other oppinions on this subject.
I am from Switzerland i should play treaty...
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New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

I've always had a better eco with Germany. I'm probably not the one to talk to but Germany has much better shipments. Jaegers and even Black Riders are pretty beefy and counter a lot of what Dutch can throw at them. Germany's eco is much easier to start up, and Dutch should not normally go for TPs, so that just leaves it open for Germany.
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France Kaiserklein
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by Kaiserklein »

Dutch sucks vs Germany, you can just pressure them in colonial while getting a stagecoach and then aging up and outboom them for example, or you can also just spam units shipments and outmass them in early fortress
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Poland pecelot
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by pecelot »

General consensus is that this MU is Germany-favoured on RE — the Dutch need a lot of time to get their eco going and they just get outmassed early in the Fortress Age. However, on the ESOC Patch, on which the tournament is being played, they got buffed significantly, whereas German Uhlans are a bit weaker, hence it's much more even. See these threads as well:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9093
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2793
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China fei123456
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by fei123456 »

Dutch can push back with hussar and 8 pikemen in age 2, if german dont add dopples. But in age 3 german has better units.
In fortress wars, dutch should go vet hussar+ruyter+cav combat. If german spam war wagons, add 12 swiss pikemen. Or even halbediers/8 landskecht.
Reason why no skirms:
1. They are hardly countered by mass uhlans.
2. If you dont have enough skirm you can't one shot a war wagon. If you have mass skirm you lose to mass uhlan.
3. War wagons are slow too. They can't kite so they lose to swiss pikemen and halberdier.
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India Challenger_Marco
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by Challenger_Marco »

I would say Germany favoured as Germans age 3 composition and cards are very strong!
:nwc:
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China fei123456
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by fei123456 »

Only when german go dopple+jaeger should dutch train skirms. But no german player realized the power of dopples, so hussar ruyter swiss combo always work.
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Switzerland Aenarion
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by Aenarion »

I agree on the fact that it is quite easy to get a stagecoach-eco behind some colonial pressure. On the other hand i think that the shipments Dutch has avaiable to them are canceling out the big 4 that Germany has reasonably well. And as soon as you have the 9Ruyters out you are pretty much fine. In addition a vet hus switch can absolutely demolish the german composition.
I am from Switzerland i should play treaty...
Australia Hazza54321
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by Hazza54321 »

its a close MU on ep
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Brazil macacoalbino
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by macacoalbino »

Close but definitely German favored... On RE it's just rape because you don't get as much XP with banks as you do in EP
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by gibson »

I should win
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Canada Mitoe
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by Mitoe »

I don't know who wins this matchup at the moment. I'm leaning towards German, but have lost a few times recently. It needs to be played more to know for sure.
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Brazil macacoalbino
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Re: Dutch vs Germany matchup

Post by macacoalbino »

I think people dont mix dopples enough times vs dutch... when dutch is playing with lots of cav in age 2, 5 surprise dopples will destroy their cavalry. Also you can siege forward houses or market, maybe force some mm.

Imo the dopp threat should keep the dutch guy away from ever getting full market and 5 banks unpunished as they have lots of times.
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