We want your feedback!

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United States of America musketeer925
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by musketeer925 »

bwinner1 wrote:I really liked the organization of the few last tournament. I think this site is build very well, it's ez to shedul, bet event is a lot of fun too... A big thank you to the people who make it possible : developpement team, media team, @Goodspeed, donator etc

Thanks for positive feedback, always good to hear :smile:

1-The lack of water map as people said. Tbh I dislike the idea of map veto, because itbresult with only standard maps.

This is such a controversial point. My speculation here may be not well-grounded, but it seems to be like about half the community wants more water, and the other wants more standard maps. I also think that split seems to align pretty closely with "players" (tend to want more standard maps) and "stream viewers" (tend to want to see more water). The veto may be the best compromise we can get here, as it allows players the opportunity to play on water if they would like, but doesn't make tournaments less enjoyable for players by forcing them to play games they dislike. While keeping streams entertaining is a huge plus, we can't run tournaments if good players don't enjoy playing in them. In fact, both 1) demanding we try our best to retain as many high-level players as possible and 2) try to force tournament players into nonstandard play, seem like, to some extent, contradictory goals. Maybe some creative thinking could come up with a better system than the veto, but my view is that the veto was a fairly popular idea.

2-(Not very important) I don't know the statistic and you have probably more information than me about this, but the check in 2 weeks before tourney seems irrelevant to me. It wasn't a bad idea, but it failed Imo, because the amount of game played remind unchanged.

I agree the check-in was not super well-implemented this time, as we didn't really have a system in place for it and had to re-use the signup system to do it. It also was not really well-publicized in my opinion. However, I do think it decreased the number of unplayed games, although I don't really want to put in the time to dig up numbers on this. If I get some time later I will look into that.
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Re: We want your feedback!

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Post by spanky4ever »

I would like a tournament in RE and with the original game settings. EP have made so many changes back and forth, I think the original game was better. And we had more diversity back then - not almost only European.
so how about a tournament on the original game, with original civ settings?
honestly - most ppl play on RE anyway - dividing the OP players from the rest of us :shock:
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Re: We want your feedback!

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Post by pecelot »

xD RE balanced confirmed
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by VITAOOOOOOOOO1 »

Aizamk wrote:Just to elaborate on the situation with Japanese players, from my interactions with them.

1) Certainly jpcommunity has been pretty quiet in general, with most good ones inactive due to jobs/life making it difficult to commit to a tournament/practicing for one/waking up at odd times just to be able to play a non-japanese opponent. Hence why they often only hold the one-day tournament things.

2) The game is far off from its peak popularity in Japan, and you really do need involvement from people like matsujun (godly caster) to make a collaboration successful; and he only shows up once in a while. Sentiment is definitely (as h2o mentioned in a previous post) that jpcommunity is in decline, though. Only about 2-3 active PR ~35 players that I know of.

3) It also seems that there is a bit of apprehension for non-jp hosted tournaments. Having to learn new maps is one thing, but the main problems are scheduling+communication. +Not really a positive feeling when you want to play a tournament for fun and your opponent tells you you're laggy.

However, imo all you really have to do is include a prize for best Japanese player (as before), consequently get some Japanese sponsorship to chip in and help fund that prize, and at least some of them would be motivated to put the effort in. TBH, though, no reason to limit this to Japan. Awards for best player by nationality/region (for the nationalities/region with above a certain number of entries of a certain level) could be really interesting.

I'd really love to co-cast a game in Japanese at some point, but while my written communication for Japanese is fairly ok, from my skype calls with some of them I can tell that my spoken communication is far far below what it would need to be. Getting there, though. Hopefully by next year!



if you really need involvement from @matsujun THEN YOU ARE FUCKED :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:
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Re: We want your feedback!

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Post by lordraphael »

iwillspankyou wrote:I would like a tournament in RE and with the original game settings. EP have made so many changes back and forth, I think the original game was better. And we had more diversity back then - not almost only European.
so how about a tournament on the original game, with original civ settings?
honestly - most ppl play on RE anyway - dividing the OP players from the rest of us :shock:

ye do a small tourney. With ALL CIVS allowed and have fun. Might even think about removing civ picking rules for some extra fun.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Post by Atomiswave »

First and foremost bring Saturday Smackdown back, it was great event that I think we all miss.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by kami_ryu »

I like the idea of remade RE maps which are fixed to spawn correctly.

I like these big events, I think these are the big fish events which feed the scene. They feel like our personal GSLs which makes it great. I love it.

I think a high-low combo may be ideal. Not sure yet for certain. However having 2 to 3 big events per year should absolutely be the norm. Then, smaller 1 day automated events would be great. This would also feed the youtube channel which is also generating some money. Throw in 1 or 2 invitational events. You're set. People are donating, the coffers are far from empty. I believe in this.

Also there is merit to saying that currently things are being done well. After all, this event has been enjoyable. I think many things are being done right.
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Poland pecelot
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by pecelot »

@Zutazuta do a victor_swe testimonial
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by spanky4ever »

pecelot wrote:@Zutazuta do a victor_swe testimonial

I did not understand your message? could you spell it out in more words for the snobbish one of us , who doesn't get your secret message :lol:
xD RE balanced confirmed

do this one aswell while your at it :shock:
If its a salty/sarcastic one, you might just leave it be :salt:
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Re: We want your feedback!

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Post by momuuu »

iwillspankyou wrote:I would like a tournament in RE and with the original game settings. EP have made so many changes back and forth, I think the original game was better. And we had more diversity back then - not almost only European.
so how about a tournament on the original game, with original civ settings?
honestly - most ppl play on RE anyway - dividing the OP players from the rest of us :shock:

More diversity as in, iroquois being blantantly OP? The only way an RE tournamrnt can be more diverse than an EP tournament is if iro and otto are banned, and then we will actually see only france and germany. To actually provide prove, unlike you did, Id like to refer to pk clan tournaments (iro and otto not banned) which were only iro and otto and the esoc tournaments before france and germany got nerfs, where those 2 civs where picked twice per series. The civ diversity is at its best right now.
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Post by lemmings121 »

Esoc events are just great, its whats keeps me and a lot of people still on the game, if it was only ladder qs, I believe the game would be nearly dead by now. So i have to thank you guys for the effort :smile:

About maps:
Map veto is good imo, forcing people to play water is annoying, having only standard maps is too. this way a pool can have a few non standard maps, and is up to the players decided if they want to play them or not.

We could have a few RE maps in tho, maps like NE and Yucatan are good, maybe a small rework to make spawns more consistent. They aren't super standard so that might bring some variety to the game without adding new stuff that people would have to learn.

Future events:
Regional tournaments: there was even a recent thread by umeu where some nice ideas popped. everyone could signup, after signups close split people in 16 groups, Brazil, Latin america, USA, china a few euro groups (preferably with same or very near timezone) etc. then we could have a group stage where everyone plays everyone in their group (might give 3 points for win and 1 for a lost, just to incentivise people to play. Since there is no timezone nor language barrier, scheduling should be easier), the one with most points in each group goes to a single elimination bracket. Might give max 2 weeks for all groups games to happen, so it doesn't goes on for too long.

Another idea for a single day (or other short format to be defined): single civ tournament. You choose your civ on signup and play only that one. lets see which are the most versatile civs! (will kaiser beat all civs with german? can tit get a good run with his india being unable to change his civ vs aztec or french? will bsop just jan abus his way to the win?)(and also, see different matchups happening, since no counterpick! enough brit vs russia! )

other ideas:
Nekoberk mentioned a medal system. That could be fun, give small badges (I mean small, like the current flags) for people doing useful stuff for the community. examples: "uploaded more then 'x' self record games"; "casted more then 'x' games"; "played in 'x' event";
could also give a icon representing the best result the player had in a esoc main event (2nd place, top 16, top 128, anything, just to people have something to look for, incentivising people to actually play the main event even if they are not 35+ "hah! this season i'll get that top 64 medal!"
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by momuuu »

1) for me its a split between actually having some more time myself and not having to deal with people that fail to schedule or show up to agreed times. Also drama instantly makes me lose motivation. Even a bit of negativity does tbh.
2) I think the betting works best. Group stage is terrible still and overall scheduling and uploading recorded games is subpar. Also, Id like to see better planned and organised streams, with announced matches rather than just a few games thrown together. Previews make me look forward to it and get me interested. If I dont know whats going to happen I am much less likely to ever click on the stream. The notification might end up becoming more and more worthless.

I dont believe theres anything that could be worth the effort beyond whats being organized right now from a practical point of view. Invitationals, weekend events or a saturday smackdown are the stuff Id be most interested in. Especially the smackdowns.
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Post by MCJim »

Thanks Mitoe for this post. I saw a lot of good suggestions. Though some comments showed me that not everyone knows our reasoning behind it. I'd like to explain a couple of things.
ronaldo7 wrote:Personally I prefer that there are plenty of tournament 1v1 with the favorite players who are present each time ... I would like to be a spectator of a tournament featuring
-H2O-bsop-lordraphael-samwise12-snowww-princeofkabul-goongoon-mitoe-diarouga-garja etc.
After that remains my simple opinion

Who wouldn't, haha. Though I hope you understand that this is barely possible, since it's so likely that one of these pro players doesn't play for personal reasons. You can't always have every good player in there even though everyone would want it.
wardyb1 wrote:What works is pretty much everything that I don't mention next. What doesn't work is probably not letting games be streamed at certain times ie Mondays or well it seemed like that despite the rules. Also looking at our authorised casters, it seems half of them haven't casted or streamed a game all tourney which is fine, but we also have people wanting to stream and cast earlier in the tourney and being denied the right to do so. if my memory serves me correctly. Maybe our media team could approach anyone who isn't on the authorised list, that streams and get them on the list. I'm not sure how to go about getting more games streamed and ensure a high quality is kept but a look at it would be good.

In total 7/30 autohrized Spring casters haven't casted for the Spring Tournament, so I don't think your statement is true. I think we've done a good job bringing in more diversity into the casting pool. We have way more casters than during the Autumn tournament. The reason why we want people to approach us, is because it will bring more motivated people who show some initiative as well. Tomorrow, I'll make the casting stats public in a newspost. Regarding the "Monday" rule, it's not actually a rule. We would prefer having streams during the weekend, but in fact, any day is possible. Though I think we have to be a bit more flexible next time, especially during the later stage of the tournament.
HUMMAN wrote:[...]Also when i miss streams the videos on youtube are uploaded pretty late, i would like to see videos in a shorter period of time.

This would mean that you'll have 2 to 3 videos online per day! That's way too much given the fact that most videos last longer than 1,5 hour. You simply can't keep up, because it's way too much. It'd also mean that we'd get fewer views per video which would end up negative for the YouTube channel. I really like one video per day, tomorrow the last semi-finals will be uploaded. That's perfect because the next match is the finals. Well timed I'd say! Don't forget that you can rewatch everything on Twitch. After every stream I cut everything into highlights. You are able to watch them immediately. Link: https://www.twitch.tv/esoctv/videos/highlights

Furthermore, I like the idea of 4th place price pool, more water maps and having 2 big tournaments per year with some smaller ones in between. I'm not sure about mixing in RE maps into the current ESOC map pool. If it'd mean more restarts, I'm definitely against it. Group stage unplayed game seems just hard to fix. I feel like if we reduce the sign-up time (which now is one month), we end up having less people in the tournament because we'll fail to reach (and convince) as many people as possible. I think we need some more ideas for this. Perhaps announcing the signups earlier.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by spanky4ever »

@momuuu said:
The civ diversity is at its best right now.

no natives, exept for a few azteks, almost no Otto - guess you are satisfied with this. Well, I am not :hmm:

Dont get me wrong though, I love the tournaments and all the effort the staff are putting down. Just would wish for more of the civs being played.
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Post by _H2O »

iwillspankyou wrote:@momuuu said:
The civ diversity is at its best right now.

no natives, exept for a few azteks, almost no Otto - guess you are satisfied with this. Well, I am not :hmm:


It is objectively better than it ever has been. More civs are seeing play over all. RE is literally only iro Otto then German French. There is data to back that up in the form of previous events.

I've seen several Otto games this tournament. Seen some Sioux, Aztec as well. Iro is probably the only civ not being played a lot. We will probably pull the data and check.

EP is not biased against certain civs. The last RE tournament we ran (our first event) we had to ban iro and Otto.

I hope you can hear some reason to this conversation as there is data to back that up.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by edeholland »

iwillspankyou wrote:@momuuu said:
The civ diversity is at its best right now.

no natives, exept for a few azteks, almost no Otto - guess you are satisfied with this. Well, I am not :hmm:

Dont get me wrong though, I love the tournaments and all the effort the staff are putting down. Just would wish for more of the civs being played.

That's only 4 civs not being played though. I think that's rather good since there are 14 different civs and they are a pain to balance.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by deleted_user0 »

Jerom wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:I would like a tournament in RE and with the original game settings. EP have made so many changes back and forth, I think the original game was better. And we had more diversity back then - not almost only European.
so how about a tournament on the original game, with original civ settings?
honestly - most ppl play on RE anyway - dividing the OP players from the rest of us :shock:

More diversity as in, iroquois being blantantly OP? The only way an RE tournamrnt can be more diverse than an EP tournament is if iro and otto are banned, and then we will actually see only france and germany. To actually provide prove, unlike you did, Id like to refer to pk clan tournaments (iro and otto not banned) which were only iro and otto and the esoc tournaments before france and germany got nerfs, where those 2 civs where picked twice per series. The civ diversity is at its best right now.


Alot of iro and otto was played but not more than germany and brits are being played now. Saying that brit mirror or german mirror is more exciting than iro or otto mirror is just a personal bias and i for one dont agree. Iro mirrors are indeed quite boring but otto mirrors are crazy fun because you can do anything you want and it can work as long as you micro better
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by Gendarme »

Lol micro as Otto
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by lordraphael »

iwillspankyou wrote:@momuuu said:
The civ diversity is at its best right now.

no natives, exept for a few azteks, almost no Otto - guess you are satisfied with this. Well, I am not :hmm:

Dont get me wrong though, I love the tournaments and all the effort the staff are putting down. Just would wish for more of the civs being played.

otto is being played quite a lot . Even i picked otto and i hate this civ. Azzy is being used aswell. Also you keep complaining about no sioux or iro yet i think spain hasnt been played at all this tourney, while im quite sure sioux and iro have been played. People will always have their favourite civs and it is never going to change that sioux and iro are considerably less popular than fre and brits.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by momuuu »

Thank you h2o and especially raphael.

Iro, sioux and aztec have always been unpopular civilisations. Theyre considered great civs on RE yet are played far less than civs like france and british. At some point you have to put your bias aside and realize that apperantly people generally dont enjoy native civs as much. You are basically suggesting having OP native civs so that we can see those being overplayed due to being way too strong. Thats what you would prefer to see it seems.
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Post by Imperial Noob »

As far as maps are concerned... My favorite one is Herald Island; great work on that! For those calling for variety... balancing The Silk Road and adding it would be great. A map with many TPs and not a "TP-map" at the same time... :hmm:

Tournaments are good as they are both in frequency and format, just next time remember to give some love and candy to the 4th place winner. :flowers:
Great to see so many civs played, too. Thanks to the balancing team!

I'd be glad to see Saturday Smackdown-like friendly events scheduled whenever possible with 2v2 matches, 5-player FFAs or Nomad-start 1v1s casted! That would be appealing to the many, many viewers, who mostly play less formal "genres". The ELO wouldn't be as important as interesting situations, so it would be easy to gather volunteers, I guess.

Tongue-in-cheek achievements on user's profiles for cool things captured on live-stream might be an interesting feature. I'll post more about it in a separate thread.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by glorious_ »

_H2O wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:@momuuu said:
The civ diversity is at its best right now.

no natives, exept for a few azteks, almost no Otto - guess you are satisfied with this. Well, I am not :hmm:


It is objectively better than it ever has been. More civs are seeing play over all. RE is literally only iro Otto then German French. There is data to back that up in the form of previous events.

I've seen several Otto games this tournament. Seen some Sioux, Aztec as well. Iro is probably the only civ not being played a lot. We will probably pull the data and check.

EP is not biased against certain civs. The last RE tournament we ran (our first event) we had to ban iro and Otto.

I hope you can hear some reason to this conversation as there is data to back that up.


maybe just max the use of otto and iro for every each player, like they can use it 3 times the whole tournament? Could get some suprising results because otto adds at least 3-4 pr to your actual game level.
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by pecelot »

MCJim wrote:
HUMMAN wrote:[...]Also when i miss streams the videos on youtube are uploaded pretty late, i would like to see videos in a shorter period of time.

This would mean that you'll have 2 to 3 videos online per day! That's way too much given the fact that most videos last longer than 1,5 hour. You simply can't keep up, because it's way too much. It'd also mean that we'd get fewer views per video which would end up negative for the YouTube channel. I really like one video per day, tomorrow the last semi-finals will be uploaded. That's perfect because the next match is the finals. Well timed I'd say! Don't forget that you can rewatch everything on Twitch. After every stream I cut everything into highlights. You are able to watch them immediately. Link: https://www.twitch.tv/esoctv/videos/highlights

I fully agree! MCJim best Jim! :love: Timed very nicely.

_H2O wrote:Iro is probably the only civ not being played a lot.

I know it's 2nd Chance, but...
viewtopic.php?f=265&t=11170
:roll:

Gendarme wrote:Lol micro as Otto

yeee just z-move you abus into hushsh
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Re: We want your feedback!

Post by Dolan »

Rikikipu wrote:I would like to recall that the ESOC maps subforum got zero topics during 2 years about what people would like to see fix or revamped. You are really welcome to post there and to discuss with us. Imo it would be more constructive to make topics there instead of randomly flaming the maps and the mapmakers.

I think I posted there for a while. I even helped Durokan write his first map, he had just a scenario blueprint and I wrote the basic map script. But yeah, later I stopped visiting the map forum much.

Maybe you could open a discussion thread in the main AOE forum when you have a final form for a map and we can throw in our opinions.
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Re: We want your feedback!

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Post by deleted_user0 »

Jerom wrote:Thank you h2o and especially raphael.

Iro, sioux and aztec have always been unpopular civilisations. Theyre considered great civs on RE yet are played far less than civs like france and british. At some point you have to put your bias aside and realize that apperantly people generally dont enjoy native civs as much. You are basically suggesting having OP native civs so that we can see those being overplayed due to being way too strong. Thats what you would prefer to see it seems.


Theyre not being played as much because of the stigma of being lame civs, and most people are too lazy to learn how to deal with their unique features. Spain wasnt being played much for that same reason on nilla, considered op/lame etc.

Spain has been played @lordraphael, but indeed its not played as much while the civ is in a good spot atm i think. Good counter vs alot of civs. But weak vs the generic euro powerhouses fre ger brits, thats why its not being picked much.

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