Does a player have his limit?

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China fei123456
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Does a player have his limit?

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Post by fei123456 »

When I was a noob 4 years ago I met a colonel iro in eso quicksearch, and i lose 0-3 in 30 minutes.
And 4 years later, I met him again in tournament, and i lose 0-3 again. His name is blackstar_op.
Is this 0-3 better than that 0-3? I'm afraid not.

4 years ago i was a sioux lamer, and I didn't know "tpboom" "stagecoach" "meta" "700w 5v greedy boom" etc. All i know is fast age up 4 axe rider :smile:
In these years i met esoc, learned goodspeed's guide, play every 14 civs, practised a lot with top players, watched many streams. I thought I'm much stronger now, but still i can't win a single game vs garja/diarouga etc, like i did 4 years ago.
so am I really better than that sioux lamer? Is this 0-3 better than that 0-3? Am I reaching my limit? I'm afraid.

When I talk about "the fallen god" you guys just taunt. Little do you know that he was just a middle school student 2 years ago, and he grow up rapidly, from a newbie into colonel 2400+ in only half a year, and beat every chinese player easily. He was a real god then.
But still, he lost to stanley 0-3. Yeah stanley played really well, and i don't think this is fallen's 100% performance: but is he reaching his limit too? I'm afraid.

When _H2O was a 18 years old farmboy, he beat iamgrunt in WCG. He was a true god.
9 years later he's still a top player now, but it seems that he's not a god now: acergame can blow up his wonder, rapha can beat him 5-1. He even lost to me for 1 or 2 times if he doesnt play seriously.
Does h2o meet his limit too? I'm afraid.
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by Gichtenlord »

A mix of talent and how much time you can invest into the game ;)
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by tedere12 »

exactly, some people learn easier than others
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by wardyb1 »

Some people could never reach the top ranks (don't know how to use keyboard or mouse), but I think most people could if they pumped enough time in. We also seem to notice we plateau or even get worse as we get older because people typically have less free time as they get older. It's also harder to learn new things as we age. Our brains are quite malleable at young ages, hence why it is much easier for a kid to learn 4 languages by age 10 than it is for someone to pick up a 2nd language at age 30. Is that a limit? Maybe, it can still be done but it's harder to do and usually it just isn't worth that extra effort.
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by fei123456 »

but the clever players will reach their limits too. h20 is a talent ofc, but h2o in 2017 isn't better than h2o in 2008.

I guess every player will reach his limit in 1-2 years?
I played aoe3 in 2012, became lt colonel 2380+ in 2014, and i never reached that elo later. (until "couprider" was stolen by a cheater lol.)
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by wardyb1 »

I think if he had the same drive to win and the same amount of free time as he did then, he probably would be a better player.
“To love the journey is to accept no such end. I have found, through painful experience, that the most important step a person can take is always the next one.”
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by ssaraf »

It also comes down to how much u are willing to learn while playing. There would be 100s of people who just play random 3v3s on deccan playing a certain set of civs again and again and dont learn that much or just play for fun.

If you meticulously practice and learn your 1v1 bos and question your decisions etc then you learn and grow faster. :D
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

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Post by BrookG »

Many skills like painting, playing an instrument, writing etc. have been systematised by people for centuries. There is the example of Theremin which is a relatively new instrument and there is no concrete technique and way to practice it. With that parallel in mind, AoE is a learnt skill that came to exist roughly ten years ago. Some people are indeed talents and the microscopic techniques were relatively easy to them without any prior thinking. But as any skill needs the practice to keep up and improve at the same time, it's the same as AoE or any similar game. Do not expect top players to be at the top shape they supposedly were because life usually is of the most importance. Wins come and wins go, this is a game we all love and enjoy. Performance is a relative issue.
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

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Re: Does a player have his limit?

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Post by deleted_user0 »

Life is just a slow decline into the grave. From your top, the only way is down.
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Greece BrookG
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by BrookG »

Two contrasting opinions. One about preserving knowledge and skills and the other about grim nature of life! #esocdrama
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

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Holy See Imperial Noob
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

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Post by Imperial Noob »

Bear in mind that other players learn too. The experience you had before learning complex strategies is not really relevant now. To contrast that, if there were players who from the beginning treated the game based on their experience with other PvP games (as I guess is the case for most of them), they could have learned most of what you know now when you were still fooling around with 4 axe riders every game. The fact that you have lost all your games to certain players means, that they too continue to run away from you, and that they do it with all their might. :)

I don't know the Chinese player you have mentioned, so I'll pass that.
Against Blackstar_OP... as he has shown, you need a H2O/Lordraphael lvl of gameplay to match him. He is probably the final challenge for every existing AoE 3 player.

About H2O
Losing games also depends on the mood and will to win. When H2O is focused and calm, he is as good as ever and after these 7 years. I suspect you feel he is "getting old" in terms of physical ability, but I can assure you, until one is way over 30, that shouldn't happen to a healthy person). Moreover, he is still improving and innovating, as shown in strategy discussions and his streams. When he is losing though, most of the time he just doesn't have high enough stakes to focus or care for a 100% performance. Also, sometimes he ragequits, which is a matter of overall character, and not of skill, and what honestly happens from time to time to the majority of gamers.

Time to practice available is an limit obvious for any person who is not a teenager or a basement dweller from wealthy background.

Personal limits of APM/attention are a matter of using as much, as possible, or even all of your potential. It depends heavily on how much is at stakes. For example, back in high school I needed to pass an advanced exam in German to get to the university I wanted. Normally I was one of the worst students at the listening part and even today I consider myself quite retarded. But at the day of the exam, I gained such a life or death focus, that I passed with 100% score when everybody else came out exhausted and with poor results. Talk about limits.

P.S. Let's not get morbid @deleted_user . There are different timings for running 100 meters, weightlifting, marathons, chess play, scientific theory building, practicing leadership, vocabulary range and wisdom gathering. Unstoppable decline of absolutely everything starts relatively far into a naturally occuring lifetime, and even then you can still pick hobbies you have never done before or learn a new language, in some way getting "better" until some rogue organ of yours sinks the entire ship.

Sorry for a wall of text, @fei123456 but your topic appears to me as worthy of some longer thought.
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by jesus3 »

umeu wrote:Life is just a slow decline into the grave. From your top, the only way is down.


My old mans eyes can relate

Getting older actually makes you worse by itself. Reactions, attention and so on
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by Dsy »

You have limit in present, but you can increase it if you wish in the future.
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

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Post by deleted_user »

umeu wrote:Life is just a slow decline into the grave. From your top, the only way is down.

Or a quick decline!
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Sweden Gendarme
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by Gendarme »

SirCallen's limit is PR 29.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

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Post by gamevideo113 »

Gendarme wrote:SirCallen's limit is PR 29.


What if all the PCs of everyone above PR 29 just suddenly broke down? Would SirCallen become the #1 player on ESO and reach PR 30?
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stupid logic. noob players can say op?
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

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Post by dicktator_ »

Barring decay with age imo there's no limit to how far anyone can go as long as they are willing to put in the time and effort. Most people understandably can't and/or don't want to put in that much effort because of real life priorities and aoe3 not being a very rewarding game (long waits for games, imbalances, bad netcoding leading to lag, other games that are more fun to play etc). Some people improve much more quickly than others, and that's where talent comes in.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by lordraphael »

dicktator_ wrote:Barring decay with age imo there's no limit to how far anyone can go as long as they are willing to put in the time and effort. Most people understandably can't and/or don't want to put in that much effort because of real life priorities and aoe3 not being a very rewarding game (long waits for games, imbalances, bad netcoding leading to lag, other games that are more fun to play etc). Some people improve much more quickly than others, and that's where talent comes in.

thats just not true. Of course every player has a limit for his mechanical skills that he will never overcome no matter how much he trains. Just watch koreans play and then ask yourself if you could reach that level of precision and speed just by training 24 /7.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Just check guys like piroshiki who played so much and never got decent, then you understand there is a limit. And I know he does a bad strat, but I mean even his mechanics aren't good
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by dicktator_ »

Well I'm talking about a game like aoe3 where the community is relatively small and the godlike mechanics of pro Korean players aren't really present, in this case I think anyone could reach top with enough practice. It's different in competitive games and I agree the top LoL, sc2, CS:GO etc players probably reached a level of mechanical skill that other players simply cannot reach no matter how much they practice. Also I think in the case of guys like piroshiki they just enjoy what they're doing and feel no urge to improve. I don't think anyone in AoE3 that I've seen except maybe H2O reached a level of mechanics that's impossible for anyone to reach.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by BrookG »

24/7 playing doesn't necessarily mean that it is fruitful. Practice should be thoughtful and consistent.
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

dicktator_ wrote:Well I'm talking about a game like aoe3 where the community is relatively small and the godlike mechanics of pro Korean players aren't really present, in this case I think anyone could reach top with enough practice. It's different in competitive games and I agree the top LoL, sc2, CS:GO etc players probably reached a level of mechanical skill that other players simply cannot reach no matter how much they practice. Also I think in the case of guys like piroshiki they just enjoy what they're doing and feel no urge to improve. I don't think anyone in AoE3 that I've seen except maybe H2O reached a level of mechanics that's impossible for anyone to reach.
It's not impossible, but it's very hard yeah
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by NekoBerk »

Did you try to talk with the top players ?, you know, after they rape you like 0-7 you must ask them what the hell are you doing wrong and they will tell you
that people can see more mistakes in your games than you because they're just better, and when you know which are the problems, try to fix them quick and you'll get better fast.
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by Googol »

I think there is a way for sure how to improve your mechanics and apm, give some of your time to aimbooster and try to spam much as you can from the start during your aoe games, then focus on making fast clicks which really do something, the idea is to get fast with the spam then lower it down with the precision and speed stays the same. aimbooster will help with the transition to precision.
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Re: Does a player have his limit?

Post by Warno »

I feel like game knowledge trumps all... then would come the mechanics, apm...etc.

Knowing what to do with Civ A vs Civ B and at what time is critical considering the high amount of matchups.
At my level if I knew what to do in matchups I would be better and I feel that is the hardest thing to learn. Unfortunately it is the thing that is most time consuming as well.

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