Changing water for EP 4

Choose the option that best reflects your opinion on the mentioned changes

The changes are (near) perfect
19
30%
The changes are the right idea, but I think the numbers should be tweaked (reply with how they should be tweaked)
5
8%
I am okay with these changes but I have a different idea on how to change water that I think is even better (reply with your idea)
2
3%
I agree with the fishing boat changes, but disagree with the war ship changes (reply with why)
7
11%
I disagree with the fishing boat changes, but agree with the war ship changes (reply with why)
4
6%
I disagree with the changes and I have a different idea on how to change water that I think is better (reply with your idea)
2
3%
I don't think we should change water at all
6
10%
I think we should try to balance water through maps alone
11
17%
I would uninstall the patch if these changes were implemented
7
11%
 
Total votes: 63

User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Goodspeed »

Dsy wrote:"Even those maps will become all about water if we make fishing boats cheap enough that both civs will want to build them early. The goal is to make this worth it, but not make it so good that the player will disregard land altogether. That's why we need to be careful about having too many resources on the water."

There is a better solution for that i think. You need build limit fishing boats instead of make less fishes on map.

For example:
Changing fishing boat limit to 12 (can be tweaked later if necessary)
Change fishing boats cost to 50w (can be changed later if necessary)

So the idea is basicly make fishing boats cost less until a point its totally viable, however limit its eco potential by using build limits.
Build limits remove choices. It should be up to the players to decide how many boats they should be making based on the amount of res on the map and any effects it would have on the size of their land army or the speed of their build.
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Dsy »

However if you making resource caps that means only one player can go to water since its made only for one. If you make resources for two players and only one player claims it then water eco is better than land.

Plus with boat limit the alrady existed maps with more resources passively fixed. Not only the feauter maps are effected.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Garja »

Well players should battle for water if they want it.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Dsy »

So the plan is making water only for one player resourcewise and fight for it if they want.

I just miss the opportunity to be able to gather peacefully on water by both player. Make timings when to strike and stuff. Its a constant war this way.
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Goodspeed »

Yeah that's why I think we should consider greatly improving dock attack vs ships. Perhaps range, too.
User avatar
Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 994
Joined: Jun 27, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Dsy »

I checked ESOC Manchuria map. Saw it had 4 whales 14 fishes.
On that particular map making 20 fishing boats just fine. But with lower cost + you can do that without schooners it could be extremely outgather land. That could be a must go water situation.
But correct me if im wrong. I dont know how strong a water boom cuold be with 60w boats...
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Garja »

Dunno why we are changing something that always worked just fine.
Image Image Image
User avatar
European Union Asateo
Dragoon
Posts: 426
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
ESO: Asateo
Location: Belgium

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Asateo »

Dsy wrote:I just miss the opportunity to be able to gather peacefully on water by both player. Make timings when to strike and stuff. Its a constant war this way.



True, but there are maps where each player has a 'pond' of water. So that should be oke.
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by pecelot »

Goodspeed wrote:Yeah that's why I think we should consider greatly improving dock attack vs ships. Perhaps range, too.

To improve camping? How do you get water back then? Would you do it on top of those warships' nerfs? Would you consider then making a single warship after those changes?
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by gibson »

pecelot wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Yeah that's why I think we should consider greatly improving dock attack vs ships. Perhaps range, too.

To improve camping? How do you get water back then? Would you do it on top of those warships' nerfs? Would you consider then making a single warship after those changes?
When you beat a guy and hes surprised of your strong play (for your PR strong) and says "nice smurf" even though you arent smurfing...my respond always: "thank you for the compliment" :mrgreen:

User was banned for this post.
User avatar
France bwinner
Howdah
Donator 01
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mar 14, 2016
ESO: bwinner

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by bwinner »

Goodspeed wrote:Yeah that's why I think we should consider greatly improving dock attack vs ships. Perhaps range, too.

Portos would be unbeatable on heavy water map. Dock attack is already OP with them once you have the 2 cards to improve their attack (600 attack I think) and they already have a good range.
Image
User avatar
European Union Asateo
Dragoon
Posts: 426
Joined: Jun 14, 2017
ESO: Asateo
Location: Belgium

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Asateo »

ugh :hmm:

Just owned by OP warships and monitors, after being ahead a lot.
Reminder of why water needs changing. :|
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by pecelot »

ugh :hmm:

Just won an unfavourable match-up by adding some fishing boats fluently to my build.
Reminder of why the hell people think water needs changing. :|
Germany lordraphael
Pro Player
EWTNWC LAN SilverAdvanced Division WinnerDonator 01
Posts: 2549
Joined: Jun 28, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by lordraphael »

gibson wrote:
pecelot wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Yeah that's why I think we should consider greatly improving dock attack vs ships. Perhaps range, too.

To improve camping? How do you get water back then? Would you do it on top of those warships' nerfs? Would you consider then making a single warship after those changes?
When you beat a guy and hes surprised of your strong play (for your PR strong) and says "nice smurf" even though you arent smurfing...my respond always: "thank you for the compliment" :mrgreen:

User was banned for this post.

was this the pecelot ban hammer ? I would love to know who gives out all the warnings and bans
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by pecelot »

Should you have any questions regarding moderation, head over to the Small Claims Court :!:
The user was banned for one day after keeping up with excessive spamming despite an official warning.
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by gibson »

pecelot wrote:Should you have any questions regarding moderation, head over to the Small Claims Court :!:
The user was banned for one day after keeping up with excessive spamming despite an official warning.
"excessive spamming" :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
User avatar
Sweden Gendarme
Gendarme
Donator 03
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sep 11, 2016
ESO: Gendarme

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Gendarme »

I wonder what moderate spamming is.
Pay more attention to detail.
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by pecelot »

Your posts, which is why they're still up.

On a serious note, let's not derail this thread, shall we... :roll:
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Changing water for EP 4

  • Quote

Post by gibson »

pecelot wrote:Your posts, which is why they're still up.

On a serious note, let's not derail this thread, shall we... :roll:
When you beat a guy and hes surprised of your strong play (for your PR strong) and says "nice smurf" even though you arent smurfing...my respond always: "thank you for the compliment" :mrgreen:

User was banned for this post.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by deleted_user0 »

Goodspeed wrote:Yeah that's why I think we should consider greatly improving dock attack vs ships. Perhaps range, too.


Wut!!! No... Why??? It's already hard to break enemy ships covered by a dock. If you do this, the player who isnt making fishing boats is going to have no way to kill the enemy docks from the water. Dock fire is fine as it is now tbh, specially if shiprange is reduced.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by deleted_user0 »

Goodspeed wrote:
Dsy wrote:"Even those maps will become all about water if we make fishing boats cheap enough that both civs will want to build them early. The goal is to make this worth it, but not make it so good that the player will disregard land altogether. That's why we need to be careful about having too many resources on the water."

There is a better solution for that i think. You need build limit fishing boats instead of make less fishes on map.

For example:
Changing fishing boat limit to 12 (can be tweaked later if necessary)
Change fishing boats cost to 50w (can be changed later if necessary)

So the idea is basicly make fishing boats cost less until a point its totally viable, however limit its eco potential by using build limits.
Build limits remove choices. It should be up to the players to decide how many boats they should be making based on the amount of res on the map and any effects it would have on the size of their land army or the speed of their build.


K, lets remove buildlimit for warships XD and make a caravel 5 pop, a galleon 7 and 10 for a frig/monitor. Its op to the player if he wants to have 10 minotors right???
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Goodspeed »

Yes well, I think the reason they put a build limit on war ships instead of making them cost pop is because they tended to make the game lag. And that's fair enough.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by deleted_user0 »

you don't see a problem with a player making 10 monitors?
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by Goodspeed »

Not after the range nerf and them costing 10 pop
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Changing water for EP 4

Post by deleted_user0 »

well, they should cost 8 pop on ep. not sure how the range nerf matters, with the special attack 10 or 11 of them can still neutralize anything that comes within 60 range of the coast. but whatever... i know how this conversation will go =_=

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV