Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by lordraphael »

WickedCossack wrote:
lordraphael wrote:you guys are all talking and talking but has any1 actually reached out to the devs. I imagine they havent started working on aoe 3 yet but the earlier one gets in touch the better id say.


There is contact but the guys under an NDA so I don't know how much they can say.

thats good to hear.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by aligator92 »

But even at Lv40 you probably miss some key politicians (imagine playing without quartermaster or exiled prince) and I am not interested in playing 20 games with shitty cards just to get a somewhat competetive civ
So yes, please remove the levelling system and just unlock all politicians and cards right away
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Gendarme »

Levelling system would be fine for non-competitive upgrades, building/unit skins kind of like Mameluke mentioned (not sure if it was in this thread or another).
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by _NiceKING_ »

aligator92 wrote:But even at Lv40 you probably miss some key politicians (imagine playing without quartermaster or exiled prince)

Yea, you need lvl60 to get everything unlocked.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by MCJim »

What do you guys think about the other improvements I listed? These 2 in particular:

- More than 50 units per control group
- Adding a loop to town center vills
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by WickedCossack »

MCJim wrote:What do you guys think about the other improvements I listed? These 2 in particular:

- More than 50 units per control group
- Adding a loop to town center vills


I don't feel comfortable with the first one for some reason though that doesn't mean it's bad. Probably just too used to 50 that a change in regards to this would feel ... weird.

What do you mean by the second one? That pressing vil hotkey only queues 1 vil when multiple tcs are selected?
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by yoqpasa »

I don't get what you mean by ''loop'' @MCJim
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by MCJim »

WickedCossack wrote:
MCJim wrote:What do you guys think about the other improvements I listed? These 2 in particular:

- More than 50 units per control group
- Adding a loop to town center vills


I don't feel comfortable with the first one for some reason though that doesn't mean it's bad. Probably just too used to 50 that a change in regards to this would feel ... weird.

What do you mean by the second one? That pressing vil hotkey only queues 1 vil when multiple tcs are selected?

By adding a loop, you never forget to make vills anymore. By looping it, your TC will automatically start making the next vill after the previous one finished.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by yoqpasa »

MCJim wrote:
WickedCossack wrote:
MCJim wrote:What do you guys think about the other improvements I listed? These 2 in particular:

- More than 50 units per control group
- Adding a loop to town center vills


I don't feel comfortable with the first one for some reason though that doesn't mean it's bad. Probably just too used to 50 that a change in regards to this would feel ... weird.

What do you mean by the second one? That pressing vil hotkey only queues 1 vil when multiple tcs are selected?

By adding a loop, you never forget to make vills anymore. By looping it, your TC will automatically start making the next vill after the previous one finished.


So all civs are otto now? :uglylol:
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Post by Veni_Vidi_Vici_W »

part of competitive gaming is to have to work on your eco constantly, thus making vills yourself. Especially when under pressure like with raids and fights, keeping the eco going is what seperates the really good from the good players. If your vills were auto-made, this would all go away... Plus, in some cases you do NOT want to make vills on purpose.
Else play otto ;)
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by MCJim »

Veni_Vidi_Vici_W wrote:part of competitive gaming is to have to make the eco constantly, thus making vills yourself. Especially when under pressure like with raids and fights, keeping the eco going is what seperates the good from the better players. If you had auto-made vills, this would all go away.. Plus, in some cases you do NOT want to make vills on purpose.
Else play otto ;)

That's a good point, though in my idea you can always turn off the loop, so that covers the moments where you don't wanna make vills. However, I don't think the game was made to constantly go to your TC to press the same button over and over again: V. Seems quite weird if that was their intention. It's maybe something not really well-thought like the town bell which nobody uses. Instead, people do it manually.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by lordraphael »

MCJim wrote:
Veni_Vidi_Vici_W wrote:part of competitive gaming is to have to make the eco constantly, thus making vills yourself. Especially when under pressure like with raids and fights, keeping the eco going is what seperates the good from the better players. If you had auto-made vills, this would all go away.. Plus, in some cases you do NOT want to make vills on purpose.
Else play otto ;)

That's a good point, though in my idea you can always turn off the loop, so that covers the moments where you don't wanna make vills. However, I don't think the game was made to constantly go to your TC to press the same button over and over again: V. Seems quite weird if that was their intention. It's maybe something not really well-thought like the town bell which nobody uses. Instead, people do it manually.

its called macro, part of every rts
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Messiah360 »

Do you think with the DE MS will rework the graphics?
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by forgrin »

Messiah360 wrote:Do you think with the DE MS will rework the graphics?


It depends on what their goal is regarding keeping the low system requirement advantage. I imagine that they'll do little to no tweaking to the graphics since 1) the effects stand up pretty well and 2) they can't move the requirements up too much to keep the low-spec demographic unlike with aoe1 and aoe2.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Messiah360 »

forgrin wrote:
Messiah360 wrote:Do you think with the DE MS will rework the graphics?


It depends on what their goal is regarding keeping the low system requirement advantage. I imagine that they'll do little to no tweaking to the graphics since 1) the effects stand up pretty well and 2) they can't move the requirements up too much to keep the low-spec demographic unlike with aoe1 and aoe2.


Could be but with Definitive Editions they would not follow the same path as was with AoE1 regarding graphics?
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Post by _H2O »

MCJim wrote:What do you guys think about the other improvements I listed? These 2 in particular:

- More than 50 units per control group
- Adding a loop to town center vills


I'm not too interested in changing mechanics for DE.

Loop is called auto queue. Every rts that has ever had this it has been a negative.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by MCJim »

Alright, fair enough. Adding an auto queue has always been questionable, I fully realize. Though I'm very convinced that more than 50 units per control group would be a good change because managing more units at the same time will be less messy. Therefore I see it as an improvement.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Gendarme »

But there are unit formations in AoE3 which doesn't exist in SC2, for example. Changing the limit to more than 50 is somewhat of a change of mechanics, although it probably doesn't actually matter unless you are making strelets or playing colosseum.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by forgrin »

Messiah360 wrote:
forgrin wrote:
Messiah360 wrote:Do you think with the DE MS will rework the graphics?


It depends on what their goal is regarding keeping the low system requirement advantage. I imagine that they'll do little to no tweaking to the graphics since 1) the effects stand up pretty well and 2) they can't move the requirements up too much to keep the low-spec demographic unlike with aoe1 and aoe2.


Could be but with Definitive Editions they would not follow the same path as was with AoE1 regarding graphics?


There's really no way to know until we hear more about it. They have the option to do a similar scale graphics upgrade, but it'd be alot of work that MS is unlikely to put into the proverbial "ugly duckling" of the series.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by _NiceKING_ »

MCJim wrote:More than 50 units per control group

I'd like to try 99 oprichniks and 1 cav archer box :love:
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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From all my incessant googling of reddit aoe3 threads over the years I've tried to understand why there is such disdain for this otherwise great RTS.

It boils down to a singular flaw - at launch, home city shipments catered towards those who have played longer. As we know having the right cards could be a 10 PR swing. It's no fun entering a multiplayer in which potentially hundreds of hours had to be grinded to be on a "level" playing field. It isn't competitive. The game's longevity depends on its multiplayer base - ranking was implemented into the game. In response to this most people blamed the home city mechanic altogether and dismissed the game as deviating too far from AoE2. As parfait said in his recent video, AoE3 is a great RTS but perhaps it could be alluded to as a poor "sequel" in the Age of Empires franchise.

I never experienced this issue off the bat. I played on gameranger on mac where home city cards could be unlocked using text editor. I can understand how it would be extremely off putting.

It would be ideal if all cards were unlocked from the get-go, or even if there were no level-caps for cards but one had ~50 initial unlocks (enough for a solid deck but not for a deck for all circumstances). I would then like the concept of the home city aesthetic to be greatly incorporated into ESO lobbies. Have home city unlocks base off home city level. Players can view other players' home cities in the pre-game lobby by cycling through. If the video game industry has taught us anything over the past 5+ years it is that players' will yearn for aesthetics that showcase their dedication and/or skill in the game or at the very least to set themselves apart from the typical crowd.

It's a reoccurring theme: a constant, level playing field but aesthetic unlocks as one grinds the game. Play to win is just as bad as pay to win. Competitive-ness is crucial. AoE3 and AoEO both failed massively with this at launch and suffered because of it.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Post by Veni_Vidi_Vici_W »

Yes, the HC issue is indeed a big one for people starting with Aoe3 Multiplayer. Always found that a weird way to start off.

Though there are other issues as well, which keep aoe3 from being very competitive unfortunately. For example:
- Pathing can sometimes mess up hard compared to other RTS (and then i dont mean going right and left from a cliff which is your own fault).
- The treasures are sometimes too imbalanced on a higher level.
- The maps are unique, but this matters too much in competitive gaming, which is why Garja's maps (or most of them) were a very good addition. Though this is complicated since civs are different in how they play out and what resources they need.
- Then there is the herding... sure a unique element and goes with the time setting of the game, but its a pain in the ass. I was talking about this with Stanley the other day. A rough calculation learned me that over the years i probably spend like two weeks of just herding animals in aoe3 :D Anyway, I rather spend time on strategy, micro, positioning, etc, than (re)herding constantly, especially a backherd on the famous GP.
- And ye it would already be much better if they fixed some issues like FTJ, stable reliable servers, a better ranking system which is not as manipulative as current PR, the sound bug a lot of people get, a better way to measure ping i guess and/or just the ability to kick people with bad pings right from the game like in sc2 (after xx seconds?), no discussions just fix your shit or dont play, no more drop hack stuff.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by wardyb1 »

Veni_Vidi_Vici_W wrote:- Then there is the herding... sure a unique element and goes with the time setting of the game, but its a pain in the ass. I was talking about this with Stanley the other day. A rough calculation learned me that over the years i probably spend like two weeks of just herding animals in aoe3 :D Anyway, I rather spend time on strategy, micro, positioning, etc, than (re)herding constantly, especially a backherd on the famous GP.

The fix to herding is probably just not having the animals roam. Nothing worse than having your hunts walk ridiculously far away in little to no time. Without them wandering, you could initially herd, have your vills on the outside of the hunt, and they will auto herd towards where you want to go. So essentially would only requires your attention once or twice instead of constantly.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Post by princeofkabul »

this heard was not hearded correctly towards his towncenter, that's a mistake!
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by pecelot »

Auto-queue I've seen only in Cossacks, but there numbers are huge and there's no group-production, just individual one, as well as resource bank is enormous in comparison with ours. It was making things a lot easier, but I'm not sure how it would go in AoE3. Macro is important, especially early on, sometimes you just can't afford another vills, have to finish a batch or immediately start another, so such a function might very well just not be that useful, especially that current player-base is so used to it.

_NiceKING_ wrote:
MCJim wrote:More than 50 units per control group

I'd like to try 99 oprichniks and 1 cav archer box :love:

That's a huge overkill, though!

About the idea above: it'd be nice to just have control over more units, like if you want to select all of your military or vills at the same time. It wouldn't have to be in a strict formation, just sort of spread out, like for instance settlers group now. Additional formations — especially if adjustable — would be appreciated, too!

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