Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by lemmings121 »

Aom also has this 'loop' to continouslly creat units, and personally I dont like it too much in a competitive setting, imo macro and multitask is the main point of a rts, and this 'auto macro' removes one dimension of the game.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by macacoalbino »

Fix the single unit siege a piece of wall down to 1hp bug!
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by EAGLEMUT »

lemmings121 wrote:Aom also has this 'loop' to continouslly creat units, and personally I dont like it too much in a competitive setting, imo macro and multitask is the main point of a rts, and this 'auto macro' removes one dimension of the game.

Hold on, how do I do this in AoM? :?:
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by lemmings121 »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:Aom also has this 'loop' to continouslly creat units, and personally I dont like it too much in a competitive setting, imo macro and multitask is the main point of a rts, and this 'auto macro' removes one dimension of the game.

Hold on, how do I do this in AoM? :?:


maybe only in aomtt? My memory isnt helping here. but there was a green circle to click in the UI.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by HUMMAN »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:Aom also has this 'loop' to continouslly creat units, and personally I dont like it too much in a competitive setting, imo macro and multitask is the main point of a rts, and this 'auto macro' removes one dimension of the game.

Hold on, how do I do this in AoM? :?:


there is green cycle button in buildings, but it may be in expansion pack Titans.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by macacoalbino »

Yep I can confirm its only in the titans expansion!
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Ahh, I see it. Haven't played many games post-tt.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by bobabu »

I think the balance changes of Esoc patch would be terrible for the Age of Empires 3 definitive edition and turn off most new players. First of all the esoc patch isn't even balanced very well. It takes away the uniqueness of the game and feeling. Especially for people with nostalgia. The patch is only good for 1v1 games and directed at a very small audience of players who for some reason feel special. Most casual players never got around playing on ep for several reasons.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Post by Mitoe »

bobabu wrote:I think the balance changes of Esoc patch would be terrible for the Age of Empires 3 definitive edition and turn off most new players. First of all the esoc patch isn't even balanced very well. It takes away the uniqueness of the game and feeling. Especially for people with nostalgia. The patch is only good for 1v1 games and directed at a very small audience of players who for some reason feel special. Most casual players never got around playing on ep for several reasons.

Right, because having 12-13 civs playable competitively on EP vs 2 civs on RE is imbalanced. :hmm:

Why does the game on ESOC Patch feel less unique to you, if you don't mind my asking? One of the things we tried very hard to do when balancing on EP was maintain each civs unique feel/playstyle.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Post by deleted_user »

bobabu wrote:I think the balance changes of Esoc patch would be terrible for the Age of Empires 3 definitive edition and turn off most new players. First of all the esoc patch isn't even balanced very well. It takes away the uniqueness of the game and feeling. Especially for people with nostalgia. The patch is only good for 1v1 games and directed at a very small audience of players who for some reason feel special. Most casual players never got around playing on ep for several reasons.

Did casual players never get around to playing EP because they explicitly didn't agree with the balance changes? Or was it because they are casual players and the lack of a player base is inherent with fan patches? The answer is obvious, of course, even absent the much more likely scenario that they do not even know what EP is.

Pushing a new balance patch ~8 years after the last balance patch has problems of its own independent of the new patch's balance.

The ESOC Patch is balanced loads better than RE for 1v1, loads! This much is an almost undisputed opinion held by nearly all top players, no? There were team-game concerns for early iterations of EP however the latest version has done its best to acknowledge them. Top-level team games are played on EP too.

I suppose wanting to create a more balanced version of a game such that two civilizations must not be outright banned from tournament-play and such that france/german mirrors are not the only MUs otherwise seen is all for the selfish reasons of a few individuals? Rather, not for the competitive integrity of the events ESOC runs, not for the players who are playing for money the community has donated?

"It takes away the uniqueness of the game and feeling." Yes, otto rushes and ffs and iro rushes and ffs are so very unique. Sioux with mini karni-mata teepees is not unique, though. :hmm: One could argue improving civilization balance diversifies viable MUs and creates a much more unique-feeling RTS.

As for nostalgia, well, which returning players (who have taken years off from the game) will notice the 9 hp nerf to uhlans? Or the slightly increased abus ROF? Etc, etc.

Please, expand upon your points!
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by macacoalbino »

Real balance is Ashi mirrors in Siberia :ugly: :maniac: :uglylol:

Jokes aside I understand the argument. People might want to come back to what they already knew. I feel as if casuals arent willing to understand what ESOC did to the patch and why they did it in the first place. Also they might just not care about balance and to me those are the main reasons they wont be willing to download and play the patch.

What I feel is that the new maps are ESOCs most important contribution to the player base as a whole. They are way better than regular RE maps, everyone can use them since they spread really easily and can be played in any patch. :chinese:
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by WickedCossack »

Mitoe wrote:Why does the game on ESOC Patch feel less unique to you, if you don't mind my asking? One of the things we tried very hard to do when balancing on EP was maintain each civs unique feel/playstyle.


Yea it should be the case that most players won't even notice any balance changes have even taken place. Only slight exception is Sioux which I'm not a fan of for that reason, but Sioux, it is what is I guess. :|

This should make it a lot easier for aoe3 DE to pick up the changes.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by _NiceKING_ »

The only thing I don't like in EP is Portuguese vill cost change. Same european vill that just costs less; feels very wrong.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by HUMMAN »

_NiceKING_ wrote:The only thing I don't like in EP is Portuguese vill cost change. Same european vill that just costs less; feels very wrong.

Yeah also 100 food gone makes 10/10 unviable, making port only boom.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by ocemilky »

Havent read all the posts here but my suggestion would be, if possible, to have seperate balance for sup, tr, dm. If it's impossible then I hope they just focus on sup.

Hopefully the devs have ties to the community - I would say it's impossible for them to not be on this forum if they are commited. Even if they havent really played the game, they would investigate the community and hopefully not just stick to their official forums.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by dicktator_ »

ocemilky wrote: If it's impossible then I hope they just focus on sup.

Probably what's going to happen which honestly I have no problem with. Treaty is such a small/niche community an official balance patch wouldn't make sense.
And yea dev communication with the community will be crucial especially if they plan on implementing any sort of balance changes whatsoever (which hopefully they will). Once AOE:DE comes out we'll have a better idea what sort of features AOE3:DE will have.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Dsy »

Btw one more thing:

Balance the maps.
You cant really play this game on Re maps. One player has 1 hunt, other has 2 is just unacceptable in competitve environment.

Also a very big rework will require balance water play since there are a lot water maps... Which is a great topic to discuss...XDDD
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Asateo »

A new good thing might be to show the number or percentage of disconnects. They show it in some games (can't remember where, but think SC?). This way you know a) if his/her connection is up to a game b) if he uses the hack to get out of a loss (incredible number of disconnects is probably hacker).
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Interjection »

Thank you everyone for the continued discussion, I will go through this and put together a preliminary draft of what we think collectively on my day off on Thursday
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Atomiswave »

Interjection wrote:
Atomiswave wrote:Better netcode is a must! Also, it would be nice to add some QOL changes to UI.


Can you suggest some quality of life changes? :)


I consider SC2 UI the best and most ergonomic UI out there, blizz improved it quite a bit over the years. For example i really like ability to see hotkey letter in down right corner of the unit icon. I wonder is something like that possible to implement in AOE III def edition. This is just one suggestion, there are tons of other ones too....
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by pecelot »

HUMMAN wrote:
_NiceKING_ wrote:The only thing I don't like in EP is Portuguese vill cost change. Same european vill that just costs less; feels very wrong.

Yeah also 100 food gone makes 10/10 unviable, making port only boom.

It's not like there aren't other ways for Ports to be played... :?

dicktator_ wrote:
ocemilky wrote: If it's impossible then I hope they just focus on sup.

Probably what's going to happen which honestly I have no problem with. Treaty is such a small/niche community an official balance patch wouldn't make sense.

You can still somewhat balance both sides by focusing balance efforts on supremacy without treaty, including late game, which is still present in this mode. For instance, Gendarme spam is too strong, be it treaty or not, Japan scales too well, Old Han is too powerful etc.

Asateo wrote:A new good thing might be to show the number or percentage of disconnects. They show it in some games (can't remember where, but think SC?). This way you know a) if his/her connection is up to a game b) if he uses the hack to get out of a loss (incredible number of disconnects is probably hacker).

Good idea, I remember having it back in UEFA EURO 2008 from EA Sports, one of my first multiplayer games! :kinggreen:
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

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Post by Interjection »

Another quick one, didn't someone come up with AI that wasn't shit?
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by Asateo »

Clan members online or ingame get an icon. You can't always befriend them all.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by wardyb1 »

Interjection wrote:Another quick one, didn't someone come up with AI that wasn't shit?

I've seen a few different ai's used. They still have some issues that is inherent with being ai. They all are still spam orientated and rely on the 100% handicap of an expert difficulty. They do make better compositions, and make some half decent walls. They are still dumb though and don't play efficiently or make smart decisions or do anything like a real player. The ones I've played against typically make the game feel worse because you get into a position that can't really be beaten, but it is nearly impossible to actually end the game, because the AI continues to generate insane res and have infinite spam. It's like walking into a supremacy game, but someone has already been playing treaty for 40min. Might be more fun for some but they all still need work.
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Re: Shaping The Development of AoE3:DE

Post by thomasgreen6 »

I agree with a lot of the things people have already said but I'll try not to repeat things

- I think McJIm and someone else already mentioned this but an live chat feature that can be used whilst your in the game browser or searching in qs would be useful
- Perhaps link ESOC (as well as ageofempires.com) on the main/news page of ESO if that's possible, to direct players here
- Perhaps re-work the clan page so that it's easier to edit posts and share links/recs etc. Perhaps make it possible to view clan homepages and add clan logos
- Similar to the clan theme but make it possible to share recs/homecity deck designs directly with someone on your friend list or in your clan
- Oh and expand the length of the friend list because surprisingly some people in the community are popular and not everyone is salty!
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