Useless units?

[Gendarme]

Why yumi samurai? It should be naginata+club+samurai(+sentry+melee heroes)

Do you mean naginata+club+yumi? Also Japanese monks don't snare in melee I think. Why go melee?

[momuuu]

You just fire away with yumi which have more range and dps than mace so the only answer aztec would have to yumi is coyotes but samurai dominate those and are much more useful that ashigaru imo. If aztec doesnt make puma then nagi are fine but otherwise samurai also do well against puma and theyre great for sieging down a blockhouse contain.

[Gendarme]

Well, even if yumis are more efficient, you're forced to make samurais in anticipation of coyotes, while he can make pure maces. You can't really kite against mace I think, so unless you're using your samurais as tanks while your yumis are killing maces - which may be possible if samurais have high enough hp to still be efficient tanks despite the multipliers of the maces - I don't see this being a successful composition.

I am of course just a PR 10 scrub and can never actually be sure of anything.

[Darwin_]

yeah yumi samurai sounds pretty bad vs azz imo

Samurai are great vs. azzy. They are fast enough to catch mace, and counter every azzy unit cost-effectively in hand combat. You can even just poke and kite with the yumi to pick off most of the mace then just force an engagement and a-move with your samurai and clubs.

Also, if you go japan cons, you can always just get the military rickshaw and put down a stable instead of clubs if azzy decides to go heavy on mace.

[Gendarme]

Samurais and maces both have 4.5 speed I think.

[Darwin_]

Samurais and maces both have 4.5 speed I think.

Exactly. If samurai had 4 speed I would not build them because they would never be able to catch up to kiting mace.

[Gendarme]

So my guess:

unless you're using your samurais as tanks while your yumis are killing maces - which may be possible if samurais have high enough hp to still be efficient tanks despite the multipliers of the maces

was correct?

[Darwin_]

So my guess:

unless you're using your samurais as tanks while your yumis are killing maces - which may be possible if samurais have high enough hp to still be efficient tanks despite the multipliers of the maces

was correct?

Not really. Yumi can kite and poke on maces very easily, and you aren't really using your samurai as tanks, they deal a ton of damage to azzy's units and the clumpy nature of azzy's army allows the samurai's slight splash damage to do a lot. The yumi are really only there to poke and kill maces that avoid the samurai, and the samurai are there to kill everything else (provided you have the mass).

[aligator92]

So my guess:

unless you're using your samurais as tanks while your yumis are killing maces - which may be possible if samurais have high enough hp to still be efficient tanks despite the multipliers of the maces

was correct?

No, their job es not tanking but killing Coyos which the aztec player has to make to have any hope against Yumi. Also sieging warhuts quickly if you can get an advantage which Aztec have a hard time replacing and also just annihilate everything if you can get a snare with some Nagi

[Asateo]

Fire Junk!!!


Edit: It's all in the name you know.

[pecelot]

yeah yumi samurai sounds pretty bad vs azz imo

Samurai are great vs. azzy. They are fast enough to catch mace, and counter every azzy unit cost-effectively in hand combat.

Even Jaguar Prowl Knights?

Samurais can go into cover mode, whereas Ashigaru cannot

[P i k i l i c]

Fire Junk!!!


Edit: It's all in the name you know.

idk if fire junks are bad but thanks to Tit I know that war junks are terrible for their cost

[fei123456]

Why yumi samurai? It should be naginata+club+samurai(+sentry+melee heroes)

Do you mean naginata+club+yumi? Also Japanese monks don't snare in melee I think. Why go melee?

To make it impossible to snipe down your samurai in tons of meler units. Naginata/hero/club can snare and tank. Samurai will destroy all.
Samurai+naginata can beat any civ that dont have musk in age 2.

[Imperial Noob]

Why yumi samurai? It should be naginata+club+samurai(+sentry+melee heroes)

how does it counter pumas? Aztec vs Japan will have to make a lot of them anyway for their siege

[IntrepidExplorer]

Why yumi samurai? It should be naginata+club+samurai(+sentry+melee heroes)

Do you mean naginata+club+yumi? Also Japanese monks don't snare in melee I think. Why go melee?

To make it impossible to snipe down your samurai in tons of meler units. Naginata/hero/club can snare and tank. Samurai will destroy all.
Samurai+naginata can beat any civ that dont have musk in age 2.

I'd like to see dopp-uhlan vs samurai-naginata, don't dopps have a larger radius for their area damage than samurai?
Rods i think would stand up well to that comp given their 0.4 melee resist...

[Gendarme]

Dopps are actually much better anticav than samurai (but worse base damage I assume).

[Dsy]

Samurai is ok unit. Havent really seen but im sure they work well with yumis. But im sure they are mediocre or under that with nagis. Only melee isnt a good idea.
And rods lose vs samurais so bad maybe you even close ur eyes when see that.

[P i k i l i c]

Dopps are actually much better anticav than samurai (but worse base damage I assume).

yeah, sams have a bit more attack but only 1 area and a worse multiplier
http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Doppelsoldner
http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Samu ... mpires_III)

[NyxAchlys9]

Dopps are actually much better anticav than samurai (but worse base damage I assume).

The base damage and cost gives samurai a good edge early on, but with a few upgrades dopples are far better. The mutli makes samurai so bad late game they lose to cav.

[IntrepidExplorer]

The base damage and cost gives samurai a good edge early on, but with a few upgrades dopples are far better. The mutli makes samurai so bad late game they lose to cav.

Presumably we're talking about an age 2 fight though, if samurais are actually being made? So then samurais would have the edge, right, because of the lack of hand infantry combat cards?

[NyxAchlys9]

The base damage and cost gives samurai a good edge early on, but with a few upgrades dopples are far better. The mutli makes samurai so bad late game they lose to cav.

Presumably we're talking about an age 2 fight though, if samurais are actually being made? So then samurais would have the edge, right, because of the lack of hand infantry combat cards?

yes they have a higher base damage, probably equal cards maybe I think both japan and germany have an age 2 card. Japan can probably mass more as well

[Darwin_]

The base damage and cost gives samurai a good edge early on, but with a few upgrades dopples are far better. The mutli makes samurai so bad late game they lose to cav.

Presumably we're talking about an age 2 fight though, if samurais are actually being made? So then samurais would have the edge, right, because of the lack of hand infantry combat cards?

yes they have a higher base damage, probably equal cards maybe I think both japan and germany have an age 2 card. Japan can probably mass more as well

Smaurai get +35% attack and +15% HP with 2 cards, dopps get +30% attack and +30% HP with 3 cards (not including solingen steel or sword saint in this). Samurai with both cards as well as exalted upgrade do 58.75 (59) damage, and 102.1 damage to cavalry. On the other hand, imperial dopps with all cards do 46 damage, and 138 damage to cavalry. Dopps also have 1 extra splash, but samurai have an extra 10% hand resist, which equates to 46 more HP towards hand attacks (no cards taken into account) over dopps, have about 10% more siege damage, and they also cost a little bit fewer villager seconds. The average japan player in age 4 and beyond will have both the golden pavilion and the shogunate, so samurai will cost even less and can have even more HP, hand attack, or speed. All-in-all, samurai are probably not as good as dopples in how they are used, if ever, by japan to augment yumi and nagis, but they are really strong on their own and do really well in non-standard situations (for some reason they also have an extra bonus (+1.15x) against elephants, interestingly enough).

[NyxAchlys9]

Show hidden quotes

The base damage and cost gives samurai a good edge early on, but with a few upgrades dopples are far better. The mutli makes samurai so bad late game they lose to cav.

Presumably we're talking about an age 2 fight though, if samurais are actually being made? So then samurais would have the edge, right, because of the lack of hand infantry combat cards?

yes they have a higher base damage, probably equal cards maybe I think both japan and germany have an age 2 card. Japan can probably mass more as well

Smaurai get +35% attack and +15% HP with 2 cards, dopps get +30% attack and +30% HP with 3 cards (not including solingen steel or sword saint in this). Samurai with both cards as well as exalted upgrade do 58.75 (59) damage, and 102.1 damage to cavalry. On the other hand, imperial dopps with all cards do 46 damage, and 138 damage to cavalry. Dopps also have 1 extra splash, but samurai have an extra 10% hand resist, which equates to 46 more HP towards hand attacks (no cards taken into account) over dopps, have about 10% more siege damage, and they also cost a little bit fewer villager seconds. The average japan player in age 4 and beyond will have both the golden pavilion and the shogunate, so samurai will cost even less and can have even more HP, hand attack, or speed. All-in-all, samurai are probably not as good as dopples in how they are used, if ever, by japan to augment yumi and nagis, but they are really strong on their own and do really well in non-standard situations (for some reason they also have an extra bonus (+1.15x) against elephants, interestingly enough).

They aren't a bad unit at all, but not really on-point for japan macro really, which is food based. In a mass the splash is quite a large effect. I wouldn't underestimate either unit really. It usually all depends on your strategy etc and if you have those cards. 50 FU dopples do beat 50 FU Samurai however in a more realistic setup dopples are much more useful as Japan has Ashigaru, which are better than Samurai to make.

[pecelot]

Why yumi samurai? It should be naginata+club+samurai(+sentry+melee heroes)

how does it counter pumas? Aztec vs Japan will have to make a lot of them anyway for their siege

You can either deal with them with your Samurais who should have no problem with the spearmen or just switch to your ranged infantry that excels anyways.

Rods i think would stand up well to that comp given their 0.4 melee resist...

Rodeleros have 10 attack...

[IntrepidExplorer]

Rods i think would stand up well to that comp given their 0.4 melee resist...

Rodeleros have 10 attack...

They would rek the Nagis and I think could do decently well against the Samurai in large numbers because of their fast attack. I agree that pure Rods would get their ass handed to them by samurai, but they could hold their own enough for either skirms or musks to get some decent volleys off, since they're a bit more sturdy than either pumas or regular pikemen