What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Do you feel like WC was a successful tournament?

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No Flag Jaeger
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What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by Jaeger »

Please discuss. What realistic improvements can we make?
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by NyxAchlys9 »

To make it so people dont fuck around with scheduling. It's not rocket science.

p.s. i dont know what the bs was with saying the scheduling is a bad system. It's not that hard. Choose a time with ur partner and play it at that time. I don't know how much simpler you can get with scheduling a game.
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Australia Timba
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by Timba »

I think that the scheduling deadlines should be stricter.
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European Union Asateo
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by Asateo »

Different civ rules?
For example: let the player who has to choose a civ pic a european/asian civ, the other play can respond with any of the 3 native civs.
This would give more flexibility, still retain the 'at least 1 twc civ in every game' rule.
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United States of America giveuanxiety
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by giveuanxiety »

I'm not sure what the issues were with the tournament, other than hearing a little bit of drama with kasier vs diarouga series. But making someone schedule a series with super strict deadlines dont always work. You have to allow some wiggle room. Us players play for fun and are competitive so we like to win. But we are not getting paid for this, our lives often come first. Often times people cant play during the week and they like to go out with friends on the weekends and they dont want to cancel plans to stay inside to play a game.
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Sweden Gendarme
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by Gendarme »

There's not much you can do about scheduling if someone unexpectedly doesn't have an opportunity to play within the deadline. However, disregarding the unexpected, people should know what is expected of them in terms of scheduling before they sign up for the tournament. I am not sure whether we actually have a scheduling problem or not, but if we do, we need to either have longer periods each round, or make sure that people who can't follow the deadlines don't sign up for the tournament. The tournaments are for the entertainment of everyone involved; cooperation between tournament admins and players should not really be an issue.
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New Zealand zoom
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

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Post by zoom »

It could be run on VP, for starters...
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by pecelot »

We learned that tournaments in summer are a terrible idea in 2015, but yet we gave it a shot and it finished before October. Success! Perhaps a winter break between major ESOC events would suit players better in terms of their accessibility.
To prevent reoccurring drama, I'd prevent people that are not involved in the match from posting in respective scheduling threads. We could perhaps think of „hype threads", by which I mean topics where members can exchange their thoughts about MUs, share their predictions et cetera.
The tournament's idea, although quite bizarre at the beginning, turned out to be quite ingenious. I've seen some complaints from top players about the civ-picking rules, but you gotta make do with what you got :roll: I hope that can be thought of in a more-competitive fashion in the future, but let's not get discourage by the main theme, as such smaller tourneys certainly bring raised level of entertainment in the periods of inter-ASC boredom and starvation stagnation. Speaking of which, Starvation 2 is highly anticipated!
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United States of America dicktator_
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by dicktator_ »

pecelot wrote:To prevent reoccurring drama, I'd prevent people that are not involved in the match from posting in respective scheduling threads.

If there is a way the devs could implement this, so that users other than admins, casters, and the players the thread is for literally cannot post, that would be great imo.
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by deleted_user »

seems like it went as well as any other tourney - just lower prize pool and a more niche rule set didn't bring out max viewers
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United States of America AOE3_Returner
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by AOE3_Returner »

More European civs would be cool.
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No Flag Jaeger
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by Jaeger »

This is probably too much to ask for at this moment, but I think overhauling the scheduling threads would be a really great help to getting things going. I think it should look something like this:

This way it should make it perfectly clear for everyone; no more "I said/He said", and people don't have to look through 3 pages of posts to find the actual time.
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No Flag Jaeger
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by Jaeger »

But perhaps this could be easily done on google docs or something like that.
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United States of America CurassierAndCurassier
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by CurassierAndCurassier »

I don't think it was a failure, but the restrictive civ set wasn't great. In the finals of a tourney meant to showcase the TWC civs a warchief civ won against a vanilla or TAD one once, Aizamk's Sioux vs Russia.
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by deleted_user »

I mean... what other way is there to do it?

Simply any tournament with restrictive MUs will see largely derivative play. (How many fkn times did we see azzy puma rush India's in-base Agra??) Native civs in general are severely underplayed compared to their EU counterparts. It makes sense that the civs with the higher gross player practice will win more.

That and Native civs are niche - map dependent, age 1 dependent, match up dependent. They aren't really meant to be a bread-and-butter versatile civ much like France, Germany, or Brits are and as such their performance suffers in extended series like these in which they are forced to be played.

The tournament was fun because we don't see many Native MUs in regular tournaments. However, because of the restricted civ pools (which needed to be restricted to avoid out-right counter-civing) we only saw linear lines of play in largely the same MUs throughout. I feel the overall tournament experience was slightly cheapened. Thankfully we got to see some truly interesting play from Aiz in the finals. It seems Diarouga doesn't know how to play against an eliphent of his caliber.

Looking back I see nothing out of the ordinary in terms of scheduling or streaming. It will always be this way. ESOC cannot afford to not have matches played for the sake of the viewers. Players are people with other commitments. Realistically in later rounds players hold all the power from ESOC when it comes to delayed scheduling/being forfeited. That's just how it works with the small pool of gifted players.
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Brazil lemmings121
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Re: What went wrong with the WarChief's tournament, and how can we improve future tournaments?

Post by lemmings121 »

Tbh, scheduling is super easy and straight forward when both players want to actually play and are past 2nd grade (capable of adding 2+2 to determine timezones, or using google)
Problems arise when people come and just say "when can you play?" and vanish for a week.... you fucking moron, the whole thread is about when can you play, no need to show up and ask that question, just say when you can.

And I'm against making that even easier with some clever programing or redesign in the site, because if someone decide they can't spend 2 minutes to read the rules and understand scheduling, that person also probably wont give a damm about showing up on time, playing the matches, respecting rules/casters...
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