ESOCommunity

Didnt know it was possible to be grumpier than metis

Metis didn't really strike me as grumpy tbh. Just as weird.

Btw this is all off topic, probably should be removed or sth

whats with you raphael lol. he only stated his opinion.

Just get back to talking about India changes guys.

Sowars I don't think need a buff early/mid game, they function differently to normal cavalry which is cool.

With house buff let's see, I think India will be ok balance wise. It's just a question of how much the sepoy nerf ruins india's identity and turns it into another semi FF skirm/goon thingy.

lordraphael wrote:

Garja wrote:ye 180 hp sepoy, xbow 17 atk and maybe cheaper rajputs so that they are usable atleast vs goons.

rajputs need upgrade cards. Imo we should buff sowar a little but keep the sepoy nerf. sowar maybe 10 more HP and increase the east india upgrade card to give it 15 % for sowars

There is one decent up for rajput in colonial which is the hand attack (coincidentially it also buffs the sepoy). Sowar are not that weak come on, it's the most upgradable India unit and get very good stats in late colo. It's just an anti infantry unit and does great at that.

WickedCossack wrote:Rajput vs goon?

Unless I missed that they have access to the wakina stimpack upgrade?

Also the photon overcharge on the TC is a bit strong atm, maybe move it to fortress.

Rajput in mass with its high stats is legit vs goons. gurkha/sowar/rajput vs skirm/goon/cav should work on paper provided India gets enough mass. Not that India really needs rajput anyway with all the colo units it has, but it's an option is unit becomes legit.

Jerom wrote:Isn't a buff to xbows mostly a buff to france/germany? It's not like those civs are that weak. That made me vote for the first option.

Well it's a general buff, it also affects Spain and Ports. Also French and Ger are rather weak colonial civs. It's not like xbow helps much with their semi FF. Ideally there should be other nerfs to compensate. French have been nerfed already, they're not that good anymore. Germans with weak ulhans will be significantly worse.
Anyway xbows just need a buff to be a usable unit. Just like pikes would need like +10% melee armor. Also Port besteiro cost tech should be reverted to nilla status. Ports lack something in the military depertment while they overperform in the eco one.

change chaminata gate into:
it doesnt have any function. instead, it needs only 40s to age up.

I wouldn't touch bows. Some other approach seems fine like raising cost a little. that's going to make the rush better still because you have no production changes and the cost for the first 12 sepoy is probably cheaper considering the house decrease.

I think you still need to smooth India out a little with something like the house change to give me more access to all their strategies.

Ryan why not join the autumn tournament?

_H2O wrote:I wouldn't touch bows. Some other approach seems fine like raising cost a little. that's going to make the rush better still because you have no production changes and the cost for the first 12 sepoy is probably cheaper considering the house decrease.

I think you still need to smooth India out a little with something like the house change to give me more access to all their strategies.

I agree. Like I said before- a 5f cost increase (same 190 hp) of sepoy + 50w house. will buff other india strategies while making sepoy based build almost same as before. With other viable options sepoy prevalence in games will decrease by itself, as good players start doing other builds.
Forcing everyone to not make sepoy by nerfing it hard should not be the approach.

Btw @_H2O have you tried the new ep india. What is your opinion about it? Does it prevent sepoy from being used in mixed compositions..

I would passively buff xbows by slightly reducing their price.

fei123456 wrote:Ryan why not join the autumn tournament?

He's in.

Crossbow needs a buff anyway... Its a totally useless units which loses even vs pure musk.
Noone wants op crossbows. But staying trash is better for you? For me being unusable is same as op. Broken, needs to fix. But you highlight only op things onfurtanately.

Note that generally musks are mostly used in push due to their siege and stability. Xbows are used in defences so right now civs like french and ger can already hold pushes. If u want to make them good in agression it should be with cards or techs, not by units itself.

Why would i use xbow for defense, when i can use musks aswell? There is no reason to do that.
My experience is that musk/huss superior vs xbow/pike any case.

Its just not logical to use a unit which loses pretty bad vs its own counter... I think.:)

Because you can ship 8xbow and not musks maybe?

Btw xbow doesnt lose cost efficiently to musk at all, its just the musk hus composition shits on xbow pike due to hus tanking a lot of xbows damage and pike being awkward defending the xbows

Hımm germany doesnt have musk so thats not an option, also french is ok with xbows. You are exaggarating a bit i think xbows are ok against musks, since you set behind and kite in base xbows are fine, you force your oppenent to come closer to take fights under tc punishing with mm+shipment.

If you improve bows, you need to increase a bit their cost as well, even if 50w 50f it would be totally fine, still cheap

I think pure xbow lose vs pure musk. Havent really played vs xbow recently but im sure its close and id bet on musks.
And if you ff you dont make usually xbows. Thats pointless. And if you no ff then you dont defend...

Xbows can outshine musks in some cases:
- Their range means you can get free kills when you camp in base. In the open it doesnt matter much because some musks will catch up fast and be able to shoot at the xbows, but in base it actually helps a lot.
- They're so cheap when spammed from wood crates/stagecoach on wood.
- They don't have the HI tag, so skirms and etc don't snipe them very fast.
- When hunts and goldmines start running out, you can still mass crossbows pretty easily.

Other than that, they're honestly shit. They're basically a niche unit: if you're not exploiting one of these points, you probably shouldn't make bows at all. I'd like them to be slightly buffed, because they're probably just the shittiest RI you can find, and they're as expensive as musks if you chop the wood.

Give more civs age 2 Xbow upgrade cards

Xbows are a very civ specific unit. Were talking about three civs that are completely capable of dealing with india rushes.

Oh wow you did change your name.

Have to say I'm not immediately satisfied with the result.

WickedCossack wrote:

Garja wrote:ye 180 hp sepoy, xbow 17 atk and maybe cheaper rajputs so that they are usable atleast vs goons.

Rajput vs goon?

Unless I missed that they have access to the wakina stimpack upgrade?

Also the photon overcharge on the TC is a bit strong atm, maybe move it to fortress.

Grudge with raphael?

HorseWalker wrote:Xbows are a very civ specific unit. Were talking about three civs that are completely capable of dealing with india rushes.

Xbow buff isnt a measure for India rush. Sepoy hp would stay at 180hp regardless.