Congratulations, esoc

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Germany QueenOfdestiny
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Post by QueenOfdestiny »

Now when I cast I will spam the other caster with usless questions
shit juice :hmm:
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Post by Radix_Lecti »

Yeah... losing wicked and now callen is quite a loss, perhaps somppu will be able to rise to the occasion I wish him and all of the future casters the best of luck.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Post by deleted_user »

It's not like I won't cast it's just that I won't ever want to.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Radix_Lecti »

You have a knack for wording out all of our feelings very accurately :)
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by deleted_user »

They're my feelings.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Radix_Lecti »

I claim them as 'ours' :)
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Kaiserklein »

WickedCossack wrote:Randomly? Oh comon dude.

You typed in the in-game chat to change casters and have the balls to say I randomly left.

I wasn't reffering to you in particular in my post, rather to goongoon denying GUA co-casting. You really been traumatized or what, to react like this? It's already the second time that you quote like 1 sentence from a big post of mine just to make your point about a 3-week-old stuff...

WickedCossack wrote:I do the nice thing and switch out in the hope that the lag will improve and after the series you came and flamed me so hard for it and were so insanely toxic towards me in the discord chat afterwards.

You're straight up lying. You stopped obsing just because you were pissed that I complained about the lag. You admitted yourself on discord (see below) that you knew the lag would be the same without you in the game. It wasn't about trying to do a "nice thing".
Untitled.jpg


After my series, I opened the discord. I already forgot that you left the cast after game 1. Then I read what you typed:
"I have enough patience to deal with children in my day job but it wears pretty thin when we get to my own free time".
So you were calling me a kid there. You basically started the flame, stop acting like a victim.

WickedCossack wrote:You didn't apologize for making me uncomfortable at all which I politely and specifically asked you not to do before the game but you don't give a shit about anyone else and instead came after me even harder.

I lost the game, it was laggy, I was mad, I said "maybe it's hazza's wooden computer, or maybe change casters" or something like that. Do you really need to cry me a river for that? Even 3 weeks after?
And why would I apologize for that? When I'm playing RO8 of a tourney, I'm really not focusing on your feelings, sorry to say that. I'm kind of focusing on myself and the series. Do you think I cared at this point that it would make you soooo upset that I write 1 sentence about the lag? Not like I even knew about that, I thought you asked me to not complain about lag because of the viewers, not as a personal request...

WickedCossack wrote:You wonder why good casters don't cast anymore well a huge part is not wanting to put up with the absolute bullshit that players like you throw at them.

No, most casters are actually tough enough to not throw a tantrum when someone complains about lag. If you ask inter, zuta, veni etc, I'm pretty sure they don't cast anymore because they don't have time/don't care so much about aoe anymore, rather than "because meanie players like kaiser complain about lag during the series :(".


But ok. If you're really hurt from what I said on the discord, and when I complained about the lag: I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to hurt you, I think it was mostly a misunderstanding (I didn't even think you lag, I thought it came from Hazza, as I said on discord already).
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by deleted_user »

well you took that screenshot out of context

anyways let's not turn this thread into kaiser vs cossack
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Post by Timba »

I appreciate the efforts of all the casters to make each series as entertaining as possible :flowers:
The best moment I've ever seen in AoEIII: youtu.be/LuMcFUjt6zQ?t=12m
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Hazza54321 »

still blaming my computer when i got a new one over a year ago :hmm:
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by sirmusket »

Ever since me and @Aizamk stop casting I think it has gotten considerably worse, just saying..
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by WickedCossack »

Kaiserklein wrote:I wasn't reffering to you in particular in my post, rather to goongoon denying GUA co-casting. You really been traumatized or what, to react like this? It's already the second time that you quote like 1 sentence from a big post of mine just to make your point about a 3-week-old stuff...


It's exactly the same accusation you made against me, yea I'm going to read it and get annoyed when you list it as one of the problems with casters. Infact GUA/goongoon is another perfect example of this issue. Only you could watch that and determine that the issue there was the "co-caster randomly leaving". Your solution here is to wonder why GUA didn't put up with goongoon barraging him for 15 mins straight?

Kaiserklein wrote:You're straight up lying. You stopped obsing just because you were pissed that I complained about the lag. You admitted yourself on discord (see below) that you knew the lag would be the same without you in the game. It wasn't about trying to do a "nice thing".


Yea I was pretty confident it wasn't me causing the lag but as a caster you never know for sure, it's impossible to know how all the connections between ip's work so yea I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing leaving to give the best possible conditions. Especially since you asked to change casters.

Kaiserklein wrote:After my series, I opened the discord. I already forgot that you left the cast after game 1. Then I read what you typed:
"I have enough patience to deal with children in my day job but it wears pretty thin when we get to my own free time".
So you were calling me a kid there. You basically started the flame, stop acting like a victim.


Dude I had lost all respect for you at that point after you didn't give a shit about what I had to say, I considered that so insanely rude. Suggesting you act like a child in some of these streamed games is pretty accurate, are you so oblivious of your own actions that you don't think this is true?

Kaiserklein wrote:No, most casters are actually tough enough to not throw a tantrum when someone complains about lag. If you ask inter, zuta, veni etc, I'm pretty sure they don't cast anymore because they don't have time/don't care so much about aoe anymore, rather than "because meanie players like kaiser complain about lag during the series :(".


I don't want to speak for them but if you don't think players acting like massive ****s has had any impact on casters then you're deluded.

Honestly it's the biggest problem right now which is why when I read a thread regarding casting and questions are raised about how to keep casters around it feels pretty relevant for me to mention.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Jerom speaks true, and I would like to ask everyone to respect his opinion, instead of attacking him and calling him salty or a pessimist. I believe the stream quality has improved as to the previous tournament (Spring 2017), but the stream quality has definitely deteriorated since 2016. It's hard to uphold strict rules if the pool of casters is so limited. Right now, I would say we have maybe 6-8 active casters. Jim and I disagree a lot about this part of the media team, so there haven't been any radical reforms and there won't be any for a while. Part of the reason why streams might seem chaotic at times is that no one has the time nowadays to micromanage every aspect of the stream, whereas we used to be there the entire weekend to oversee the stream and casters. I am happy with the current active casters that we have. They may not be 100% accurate and enthusiastic at all times, but they're a lot more reliable than the big names and without them there would be no tournaments.

While the viewer might see the casters as the troublemaker, the reality is that the player is mostly a stupid toddler that needs to be supervised 24/7. Players are the biggest troublemakers and are the main reason why streams start late or have casters switched out mid-stream. We've lost many casters due to revolting players and stupid incidents that led to nothing. With that being said, we've had a lengthy discussion on Discord, so please stop arguing this out on the forums Kaiser and Wicked. As you may have noticed, tournament rules have become stricter this tournament in an attempt to jeopardize the freedom of the players, though not always enforced due to time constraints. At the moment, I would say the players control the quality of the tournaments, not the media team.

In short, I agree that the stream quality has deteriorated over the years, but I do advise everyone to appreciate what we have before it's gone.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Garja »

The lag controls the quality of the tournament I'd say.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Kaiserklein »

WickedCossack wrote:It's exactly the same accusation you made against me, yea I'm going to read it and get annoyed when you list it as one of the problems with casters. Infact GUA/goongoon is another perfect example of this issue. Only you could watch that and determine that the issue there was the "co-caster randomly leaving". Your solution here is to wonder why GUA didn't put up with goongoon barraging him for 15 mins straight?

My point is that there should be a solid protocol to follow in that kind of case. It is NOT up to the players to deny a caster, unless they can prove he's lagging. If the player insists beyond an acceptable limit (like goongoon did), the admins should pressure him with the threat of a punishment.

WickedCossack wrote:Yea I was pretty confident it wasn't me causing the lag but as a caster you never know for sure, it's impossible to know how all the connections between ip's work so yea I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing leaving to give the best possible conditions. Especially since you asked to change casters.

I mean it's literally useless to change casters before doing a lag test... I sincerely didn't expect you to leave the cast. I even said it's useless to go with callen solo casting without doing a lag test before, and after the game when I saw the lag didn't get better, I said you should come back. In my opinion you just overreacted to a single sentence I wrote when I was mad...

WickedCossack wrote:Dude I had lost all respect for you at that point after you didn't give a shit about what I had to say, I considered that so insanely rude. Suggesting you act like a child in some of these streamed games is pretty accurate, are you so oblivious of your own actions that you don't think this is true?

Yeah so you lost all respect for me when I typed one sentence. "change the casters idk". This is pure overreaction. It's also pretty childish to get so much offended from such a small thing, and let the caster solo cast the whole series as a result.
And yeah it is also childish to rage, obviously. My point is, just don't act like I started the shit on discord. I would have literally never typed anything there if you didn't start to flame me.

WickedCossack wrote:I don't want to speak for them but if you don't think players acting like massive ****s has had any impact on casters then you're deluded.

The problem being, you consider me as a massive dick for that one sentence. I won't say I haven't been an asshole sometimes in tourney, notably in the TWC semi finals. If the casters had complained about my behavior in that one series (which they btw didn't), it would have been very legit. But for just throwing one sentence like that, when I was mad and under tourney pressure, no I'm sorry, but it's just a big joke.

WickedCossack wrote:Honestly it's the biggest problem right now which is why when I read a thread regarding casting and questions are raised about how to keep casters around it feels pretty relevant for me to mention.

Well then you agree with me in the end. I think rules should be stricter to ensure a better casting. Not letting the players deny co-casters so easily is one example. Punishing players who really act like "massive dicks" (by this I mean for example me rage quitting semi finals, uhlan and somppu flaming each other, or what goongoon did) is another example.


Btw, you ignored the part where I said sorry.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Post by Gendarme »

deleted_user wrote:anyways let's not turn this thread into kaiser vs cossack

Nice try
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Dolan »

Garja is right. If players play with lag, the tourney failed.

Problem is AOE3 sucks in terms of networking and there's not much we can do. We can only mitigate the problem by carefully picking casters who have great internet and machines. And who can test their pings with the location of other players in the room, to make sure it's alright. If everything fails, let only one caster who has good graphics stay in the game, to keep the camera on players, so at least we get a good live capture of players' moves.

Then maybe that guy can be on a voice call with other high-level players who can comment what that guy is describing. It's not the best solution, but it's the best compromise.

Also, pls, in the future, make sure you have a PR35 or + player commenting the finals, while someone with good graphics and good game sense can move the camera to the hottest game scenes.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Dolan wrote:Also, pls, in the future, make sure you have a PR35 or + player commenting the finals, while someone with good graphics and good game sense can move the camera to the hottest game scenes.

Hold them by gun point if you have to, because you will have to.

Or better yet tell them Dolan said they must cast >:(

I can count the pr 35+ casters on one hand and also the casters who stream in 1080 on one hand. Well, we got 1.00 + (31/35) = 1.89 out of 2.00 (94%) this finals for you. Rest assured media team tried their best given the awkward scheduling of the finals due to some sudden irl conflicts of the players.

You're a big boy, maybe you should ask casters to cast. You'll probably do a better job!.

PS:
[spoiler=im so dumb caster]Image[/spoiler]
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by gibson »

Gotta be pr 60 to cast plz
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Post by Gendarme »

Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

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Kaiserklein wrote:Sadly, I don't think we can say the casting got better since last year. Jerom is right when he says that being positive for the sake of being positive makes no sense. I think this was the first tourney where we had no interjection, no zuta, no veni, no H2O. No wonder this time, the finals didn't peak over 500, while usually it's around 800-1000, iirc. No offense to callen and chrisie who casted the finals, I think they're both good casters, especially callen brings an accurate insight. But they're not "casting legends" like the ones I mentioned, obviously.

The highest viewer-count was during the first ASC casted on the official AoE Twitch channel with ~900 viewers in the final game of the Bo9 series between arguably two of the best AoE3 players ever. Then it was always around 500.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by momuuu »

Dolan wrote:Garja is right. If players play with lag, the tourney failed.

Problem is AOE3 sucks in terms of networking and there's not much we can do. We can only mitigate the problem by carefully picking casters who have great internet and machines. And who can test their pings with the location of other players in the room, to make sure it's alright. If everything fails, let only one caster who has good graphics stay in the game, to keep the camera on players, so at least we get a good live capture of players' moves.

Then maybe that guy can be on a voice call with other high-level players who can comment what that guy is describing. It's not the best solution, but it's the best compromise.

Also, pls, in the future, make sure you have a PR35 or + player commenting the finals, while someone with good graphics and good game sense can move the camera to the hottest game scenes.

This is somewhat subjective. I'd say a tournament has multiple goals. Providing a competitive environment for players so that we can fire up the willingness to improve and discover things in this game, but also not in the last place providing content towards the entire community. That last point is of serious importance, I'm personally much more likely to get inspired to play aoe3 after watching cool things on a stream (for example, I've started playing some sioux games while I'd have otherwise probably played another game). I find that there's a split in providing the competitive environment aswell as providing the content, and that it's not at all obvious to favor one over the other objectively. To me, it is slightly more important that a large playerbase is engaged in what competitive aoe3 is like and is inspired to try to also become more proficient in the game than that it is important to provide the optimal competitive environment to top players.

In the end, I'm not even sure how beneficial the tournaments are to the top players: ego wars intensify somewhat, people don't want to give out strats during tournament games a lot and end up playing on smurfs or just not at all. It's hard to directly point towards the importance of the competitive environment of a tournament with sheer facts, and there's surely both benefits and negative sides. That being said, it seems like an extreme sacrifise to content to put up these restrictions on casters. You're probably not even remotely aware of how limited the caster pool is. I am convinced it is not actually possible to make sure EU casters cast EU games and NA casters cast NA games, not to mention the NA vs EU match ups. Two casters might surely make the lag worse, but it never ends up being too bad to be honest. Lag is part of all games, even all practise games, and thus doesn't affect the competitive environment that badly. Generally, I'd find it hard to point at casters that directly cause lag.

When the media team was just recently founded we tested how casting over skype screenshare or just based of what someone is saying is possible, but it turned out that really didn't work one bit. I'd say it could be viable to have just one caster too, but not for all casters. Some casters in the current pool definitely need someone that guides them a bit through the strategic side of casting, and I think a fair share of them would detest solocasting and not really manage to fill all of the game with casting. Overall, there's no good solution to the problem. If you want to cast games, you will have lag, and if you want the best casters possible you'll have more lag. It's a tradeoff, but the lag is rarely actually bad and I personally think the value of a good cast cannot be overstated.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by Dolan »

deleted_user wrote:Hold them by gun point if you have to, because you will have to.

Or better yet tell them Dolan said they must cast >:(

I can count the pr 35+ casters on one hand and also the casters who stream in 1080 on one hand. Well, we got 1.00 + (31/35) = 1.89 out of 2.00 (94%) this finals for you.

Well, I heard some high-level players complain about this.. that's why I mentioned it. I guess if they complain about it but they don't want to help with casting, we (including them) kind of deserve our fate. :|

Rest assured media team tried their best given the awkward scheduling of the finals due to some sudden irl conflicts of the players.

Yeah BTDT and it sucks.

You're a big boy, maybe you should ask casters to cast. You'll probably do a better job!.

Idk, it's kind of an opportunity for them to showcase their insight into strats and gameplay. But if they have a shitty setup or have some kind of apprehension towards doing it, they might balk at using that opportunity.

PS: did you have me muted or did you hear when I explained Mitoe's thought process which led him to quickly scout Sioux's proxy base? He even complimented me after rewatching for catching it :P
[spoiler=ss]Image[/spoiler]

I don't think I have anyone muted. I wouldn't suspect Mitoe of using maphack, if I said anything to that effect, I was probably memeing.
But some other players' movements are suspicious sometimes yeah.
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by deleted_user »

Nevermind
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Re: Congratulations, esoc

Post by gibson »

momuuu wrote:
Dolan wrote:Garja is right. If players play with lag, the tourney failed.

Problem is AOE3 sucks in terms of networking and there's not much we can do. We can only mitigate the problem by carefully picking casters who have great internet and machines. And who can test their pings with the location of other players in the room, to make sure it's alright. If everything fails, let only one caster who has good graphics stay in the game, to keep the camera on players, so at least we get a good live capture of players' moves.

Then maybe that guy can be on a voice call with other high-level players who can comment what that guy is describing. It's not the best solution, but it's the best compromise.

Also, pls, in the future, make sure you have a PR35 or + player commenting the finals, while someone with good graphics and good game sense can move the camera to the hottest game scenes.

If you want to cast games, you will have lag, and if you want the best casters possible you'll have more lag. It's a tradeoff, but the lag is rarely actually bad and I personally think the value of a good cast cannot be overstated.
Well there really shouldn't be anything more than the expected tiny bit of lag that can only be eliminated by LAN. It just so happens that so many casters have mediocre setups that cause additional lag.

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