explorer fast shooting

[Garja]

By common knowledge you mean you and Jerom?
You do realize yes that I dont even give a shit about this thread and I'm just posting for the sake of it?!

[Kaiserklein]

To be fair it is common knowledge

[[Armag] diarouga]

By common knowledge you mean you and Jerom?
You do realize yes that I dont even give a shit about this thread and I'm just posting for the sake of it?!

I know that you don't give a shit yes, but you're the last guy who should tell me that my opinion doesn't deserve respect, because yes it's common knowledge that your opinion is bs very often.

Me and Jerom are the 2 guys who are the most vocal about it and prove you wrong most of the time, but everybody knows that once in a while, you're going to say something which is so wrong even a 3 yo kid would understand it.
Most people are too polite to tell you that though.

[Garja]

Prove me wrong?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Prove me wrong?

Yea

[Garja]

Nope.

[Garja]

To be fair it is common knowledge

It is common knowledge that I often say the opposite of what majority says. That doesn't make my statements bs. If anything it make me above you because I think at a higher level.
And honestly the fact that I have to make it clear with a direct reply is a bit annoying.

[Kaiserklein]

Ah so in fact, you're some kind of intellectual elite, but everyone is too stupid to understand your points so they think it's bs. Makes sense

[Garja]

More or less. But I'm talking strictly about the game.

[[Armag] diarouga]

So you have opinions common people can't understand because you're above, but you can't make it work in game vs these people because of lag right?

[Garja]

Eh? I make things work, eventually. Wtf are you saying. Besides not everything I refer to is proven or disproven in game.

[_H2O]

You did. For garja a bug is by definition cheating, and thus shouldn't be used.

Not really interested in participating in the bulk of this discussion, but bug abuse--particularly of bugs that can be potentially game-changing or game-breaking, such as Alt D--is definitely cheating. In most modern games bug abuse is a reportable & bannable offense because it ruins the gameplay experience for the vast majority of players.

I would argue that Alt D and Crackshot Cancelling are both game-breaking bugs and therefore cheating, and that it would ruin the experience for most players, but I've learned that trying to change someone else's opinion with my own opinion is almost never worth my time, and also never succeeds, so I'm not going to bother making an argument for it. Most of my thoughts on the matter are in the other thread, anyway.

No, no, just no. Bug abuse is not definitely cheating. Please actually enlighten yourself and look at countless games were weird buggy behaviour is being abused without being considered cheating.

Read this: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Glitch

You are missing the point. Mitoe and myself don’t care what you want to categorize this issue as. It is net negative for the game to have this mechanic. I’ll write a macro and use it to take the 300 food treasure at 15 seconds into the game if I want to.

Without a developer to fix defects like this while leaving the reasonable ones in place we have to make rules to address these issues.

The arguement is a practical one not a philosophical one.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well, that's what I've been arguing, it's all based on esoc staff decisions, which are based on practical reasons, but which are still subjective.

By the way, because of how aoe works, you can't have infinite ROF so you wouldn't be able to take a 300f treasure.

[Hazza54321]

How you guys think in any way that its a potential positive thing fking baffles me

[_H2O]

Well, that's what I've been arguing, it's all based on esoc staff decisions, which are based on practical reasons, but which are still subjective.

By the way, because of how aoe works, you can't have infinite ROF so you wouldn't be able to take a 300f treasure.

Interesting. I’ve never tried to push this bug further. Probably due to lag making it impossible to time perfectly.

Yes, I am trying to do what’s best for the game and the community with these rules and decisions. That’s what ESOC is trying to do :). Of course all of life is subjective and these discussions are cool even if they don’t change my mind on a particular topic.

[Ashvin]

How you guys think in any way that its a potential positive thing fking baffles me

Exactly! this thread makes me mad how people can even discuss it.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well, that's what I've been arguing, it's all based on esoc staff decisions, which are based on practical reasons, but which are still subjective.

By the way, because of how aoe works, you can't have infinite ROF so you wouldn't be able to take a 300f treasure.

Interesting. I’ve never tried to push this bug further. Probably due to lag making it impossible to time perfectly.

Yes, I am trying to do what’s best for the game and the community with these rules and decisions. That’s what ESOC is trying to do :). Of course all of life is subjective and these discussions are cool even if they don’t change my mind on a particular topic.

Yes because of lag you can't shoot faster than 1/1.5 ROF.
I know you're trying to do your best for the community, but actually I also want the game to be as fun as possible, and my point is that unlike what most people here claim it's not objectively or obviously game breaking, it depends on one's opinion.

[deleted_user]

Well, that's what I've been arguing, it's all based on esoc staff decisions, which are based on practical reasons, but which are still subjective.

By the way, because of how aoe works, you can't have infinite ROF so you wouldn't be able to take a 300f treasure.

Interesting. I’ve never tried to push this bug further. Probably due to lag making it impossible to time perfectly.

Yes, I am trying to do what’s best for the game and the community with these rules and decisions. That’s what ESOC is trying to do :). Of course all of life is subjective and these discussions are cool even if they don’t change my mind on a particular topic.

Yes because of lag you can't shoot faster than 1/1.5 ROF.
I know you're trying to do your best for the community, but actually I also want the game to be as fun as possible, and my point is that unlike what most people here claim it's not objectively or obviously game breaking, it depends on one's opinion.

#ModTheEar

[momuuu]

Show hidden quotes

Well, that's what I've been arguing, it's all based on esoc staff decisions, which are based on practical reasons, but which are still subjective.

By the way, because of how aoe works, you can't have infinite ROF so you wouldn't be able to take a 300f treasure.

Interesting. I’ve never tried to push this bug further. Probably due to lag making it impossible to time perfectly.

Yes, I am trying to do what’s best for the game and the community with these rules and decisions. That’s what ESOC is trying to do :). Of course all of life is subjective and these discussions are cool even if they don’t change my mind on a particular topic.

Yes because of lag you can't shoot faster than 1/1.5 ROF.
I know you're trying to do your best for the community, but actually I also want the game to be as fun as possible, and my point is that unlike what most people here claim it's not objectively or obviously game breaking, it depends on one's opinion.

Jesus get it through your thick skull. Of course it's not an objective conclusion, neither is any bit of EP balance, or like anything, but you still support EP's game balance enterprise? Seems to be a community majority that supports the ban of this mechanic anyways (arguably the most reliable metric in these cases) in tournaments and it's been well reasoned to be banned, not to objective truth, idiot, but to just something that is sensible and reasonable and implementable. Jgalz can go ahead and say RE Iro is shit all day because it's an opinion thing, and he's not wrong, but he also is kind of wrong.

Use it in your private games. You're a sentient guy.

Your comment is very misplaced.. diarouga is almost getting flamed/ridiculed by people that are indeed acting as if banning this bug is a nobrainer while diarouga is giving good arguments why its not. Theres no getting it through his thick skull, hes presenting good arguments and defending them well while others are acting as if they are defending the objective truth.

Really, if you need to bash on people to make yourself feel better you shouldve picked the other side of the argument - garja in particularly has been throwing around the word objectively a lot.

[momuuu]

How you guys think in any way that its a potential positive thing fking baffles me

Its potentially a cool skill based micro trick that makes age 1 more challenging and less luck based? How can that not potentially have a positive effect on the game?

[deleted_user]

Show hidden quotes

Well, that's what I've been arguing, it's all based on esoc staff decisions, which are based on practical reasons, but which are still subjective.

By the way, because of how aoe works, you can't have infinite ROF so you wouldn't be able to take a 300f treasure.

Interesting. I’ve never tried to push this bug further. Probably due to lag making it impossible to time perfectly.

Yes, I am trying to do what’s best for the game and the community with these rules and decisions. That’s what ESOC is trying to do :). Of course all of life is subjective and these discussions are cool even if they don’t change my mind on a particular topic.

Yes because of lag you can't shoot faster than 1/1.5 ROF.
I know you're trying to do your best for the community, but actually I also want the game to be as fun as possible, and my point is that unlike what most people here claim it's not objectively or obviously game breaking, it depends on one's opinion.

Jesus get it through your thick skull. Of course it's not an objective conclusion, neither is any bit of EP balance, or like anything, but you still support EP's game balance enterprise? Seems to be a community majority that supports the ban of this mechanic anyways (arguably the most reliable metric in these cases) in tournaments and it's been well reasoned to be banned, not to objective truth, idiot, but to just something that is sensible and reasonable and implementable. Jgalz can go ahead and say RE Iro is shit all day because it's an opinion thing, and he's not wrong, but he also is kind of wrong.

Use it in your private games. You're a sentient guy.

Your comment is very misplaced.. diarouga is almost getting flamed/ridiculed by people that are indeed acting as if banning this bug is a nobrainer while diarouga is giving good arguments why its not. Theres no getting it through his thick skull, hes presenting good arguments and defending them well while others are acting as if they are defending the objective truth.

Really, if you need to bash on people to make yourself feel better you shouldve picked the other side of the argument - garja in particularly has been throwing around the word objectively a lot.

This thread is just 7 pages of people attacking the holders of their opinions, don't mind meeeeeeee

So far the player pool using this thing amounts to sirmusket, diarouga, you, Tit. Hey, that's a 2v2 (and a revitalized game, to boot)!

[chris1089]

How you guys think in any way that its a potential positive thing fking baffles me

Its potentially a cool skill based micro trick that makes age 1 more challenging and less luck based? How can that not potentially have a positive effect on the game?

Firstly it breaks the fundamental way the game was designed - rate of fire.
Secondly it's game breaking: losing 100hp in 2 seconds can potentially allow the other explorer to take all the treasures on the map (maybe 300+ resources) and deny at tp. Furthermore, if a macro is written it could be used to kill several military units making, for example a Russian constant pressure strat, but also other rushes, close to unviable.

[[Armag] diarouga]

How you guys think in any way that its a potential positive thing fking baffles me

Its potentially a cool skill based micro trick that makes age 1 more challenging and less luck based? How can that not potentially have a positive effect on the game?

Firstly it breaks the fundamental way the game was designed - rate of fire.
Secondly it's game breaking: losing 100hp in 2 seconds can potentially allow the other explorer to take all the treasures on the map (maybe 300+ resources) and deny at tp. Furthermore, if a macro is written it could be used to kill several military units making, for example a Russian constant pressure strat, but also other rushes, close to unviable.

1) I know that the pull trick is an exploit while this one is a bug, and I don't want to have this discussion again, but since we're arguing about the effect it has on the game and not on whether or not it should be objectively banned, I think that I can say, again, than the pull trick breaks the fundamental way the game was designed too - speed

2) As I said, because of how aoe 3 works, you can't have 50 dps. Maybe you can shoot two times faster, which is fine imo since it's not enough to be game breaking, but enough to make a difference between one player who can use this micro trick and one who can't.

3) How would you write a macro for that?
You need to click on the treasure guardian (a macro can't do that) using the crackshot (ie an hotkey), and then right click on the opponent's units, which, again, can't be done with a macro.

It's not going to be allowed in tournaments because the majority is against it, but it's definitely not a no brainer to ban it, and it's not game breaking.

[Hazza54321]

The rate of fire is only near treasures and for ranged heroes only, stop being deluded and controversial for the sake of being controversial

[_H2O]

There is nothing wrong with discussing these ideas and challenging them. I see nothing wrong with diarougas posts.