explorer fast shooting

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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

chris1089 wrote:
momuuu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:How you guys think in any way that its a potential positive thing fking baffles me

Its potentially a cool skill based micro trick that makes age 1 more challenging and less luck based? How can that not potentially have a positive effect on the game?

Firstly it breaks the fundamental way the game was designed - rate of fire.
Secondly it's game breaking: losing 100hp in 2 seconds can potentially allow the other explorer to take all the treasures on the map (maybe 300+ resources) and deny at tp. Furthermore, if a macro is written it could be used to kill several military units making, for example a Russian constant pressure strat, but also other rushes, close to unviable.

So first of all, a bug is not necessarily a cheat. Just have a look at tons of other games.
Secondly, its not actually gamebreaking because of both lag and the fact that the other player can just do the same trick to increase dps.
Furthermore, a macro will probably only work on treasure guardians, as it would be impossible to write a macro that includes moving the mouse from a treasure guardian to a unit. Only the iro explorer could potentially be abused with a macro.

In casual games, not using these tricks is a gentlemens agreement to begin with. One could also agree to simply not use a macro.

For tournament purposes it might be hard to detect macros.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by tabben »

Hazza54321 wrote:How you guys think in any way that its a potential positive thing fking baffles me

lool hazza speaking like a real good boy, the fastest shooter of them all! (since sirmusket quit)

Actually, I can't remember you using this in your last couple of streams. If that's the case I just want you to know that I'm proud of you :flowers:
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Even vs treasure guardians you can't use a macro because if you do it too fast, because of the lag, it doesn't cancel the crackshot and you look dumb.

I know that in laggy games, I can even reach manually the «hotkey speed» limit, if you do it faster than like 1.5/1 ROF, then it doesn't cancel the crackshot.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

deleted_user wrote:
momuuu wrote:
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Your comment is very misplaced.. diarouga is almost getting flamed/ridiculed by people that are indeed acting as if banning this bug is a nobrainer while diarouga is giving good arguments why its not. Theres no getting it through his thick skull, hes presenting good arguments and defending them well while others are acting as if they are defending the objective truth.

Really, if you need to bash on people to make yourself feel better you shouldve picked the other side of the argument - garja in particularly has been throwing around the word objectively a lot.

This thread is just 7 pages of people attacking the holders of their opinions, don't mind meeeeeeee

So far the player pool using this thing amounts to sirmusket, diarouga, you, Tit. Hey, that's a 2v2 (and a revitalized game, to boot)!

I havent once used this bug. Stop being so smug. Use 'arguments' instead, its a better look.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Even vs treasure guardians you can't use a macro because if you do it too fast, because of the lag, it doesn't cancel the crackshot and you look dumb.

I know that in laggy games, I can even reach manually the «hotkey speed» limit, if you do it faster than like 1.5/1 ROF, then it doesn't cancel the crackshot.

So then even a macro is not a problem. I struggle to find many arguments against it then..
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

That's bs, there is no speed limit as long as you do all necessary clicks well.
And ayway exploers fast shooting treasures or each otheris dumb as fuck. It's not different than players playing with cheats enabled.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:That's bs, there is no speed limit as long as you do all necessary clicks well.
And ayway exploers fast shooting treasures or each otheris dumb as fuck. It's not different than players playing with cheats enabled.

1) There's a speed limit because of the lag in aoe3, just try it bro
2) Not different than playing with cheats enabled? Let's do something then, we play a showmatch bo7 where I'm allowed to use cheats 3 games and where you can use the explo glitch 4 games! Since it's the same you should win 4-3, shouldn't you?
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

Wtf argument is that? Learn to read. It is the same in the sense that even if the same cheat is allowed for both players it is dumb anyway.
Let's play with alt-d enabled and let's see how fuckin dumb games get. Maybe then you fuckin morons with 80 iq will finally get why it is an idiotic idea to have when you finally see it. Jesus Christ just fuckin use your braincells to predict possible outcomes, I dont need to fuckin spend time showing you the obvious.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:Wtf argument is that? Learn to read. It is the same in the sense that even if the same cheat is allowed for both players it is dumb anyway.
Let's play with alt-d enabled and let's see how fuckin dumb games get. Maybe then you fuckin morons with 80 iq will finally get why it is an idiotic idea to have when you finally see it. Jesus Christ just fuckin use your braincells to predict possible outcomes, I dont need to fuckin spend time showing you the obvious.

Well since the beginning of the discussion you've been claiming that using alt d and cheating is the same but the only thing you've done was stating it lol.

I mean, I could just say something like «Playing Iro on the RE is the same as playing with cheats enabled, it creates dumb games» and that would be totally wrong.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

You keep making shit comparisons. How is using Iro the same? RE Iro doesn't necessarily make for dumb games, it makes for unfair ones. Dumb is two explorerers going down and then up 5 secs after that or even instantly just to try to steal stuff. Same dumbness is continuosly reviving iro explorers while in opponent base because it gives aura boost despite getting knocked down every time. It not necessarily better for one side, it is just dumb. Same thing with enabling monstertruck or shit like that.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Well that's your opinion.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

It is anyone's with 100 iq points or higher opinion, really.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

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momuuu wrote:
chris1089 wrote:
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Firstly it breaks the fundamental way the game was designed - rate of fire.
Secondly it's game breaking: losing 100hp in 2 seconds can potentially allow the other explorer to take all the treasures on the map (maybe 300+ resources) and deny at tp. Furthermore, if a macro is written it could be used to kill several military units making, for example a Russian constant pressure strat, but also other rushes, close to unviable.

So first of all, a bug is not necessarily a cheat. Just have a look at tons of other games.

I didn't say it was a bug or a cheat - I said, not only was it not designed that way, but it is not even a niche bug - every military unit in the game has been given a rate of fire. Address my specific point, don't make it irrelevant by generalizing it.

Secondly, its not actually gamebreaking because of both lag and the fact that the other player can just do the same trick to increase dps.

Tit still took loads of hp off kaiser's explorer. Just because one person can cheat it's fine for someone else to? Harry Kane can be rugby tackled so football should now become rugby?

Furthermore, a macro will probably only work on treasure guardians, as it would be impossible to write a macro that includes moving the mouse from a treasure guardian to a unit. Only the iro explorer could potentially be abused with a macro.

I don't really care about "probably". Macros have been written before for many things and I would assume they can be for this - unless someone who knows lots of coding stuff informs me otherwise.

In casual games, not using these tricks is a gentlemens agreement to begin with. One could also agree to simply not use a macro.

not using these cheats is a gentlemens agreement to begin with. I don't think anything more needs to be said here.

For tournament purposes it might be hard to detect macros.

Who cares if you can detect a macro or not? If they are using one they are cheating, if they aren't they are still cheating.


If you are going to reply, could you try addressing my arguments?
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

chris1089 wrote:
momuuu wrote:
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So first of all, a bug is not necessarily a cheat. Just have a look at tons of other games.

I didn't say it was a bug or a cheat - I said, not only was it not designed that way, but it is not even a niche bug - every military unit in the game has been given a rate of fire. Address my specific point, don't make it irrelevant by generalizing it.

Secondly, its not actually gamebreaking because of both lag and the fact that the other player can just do the same trick to increase dps.

Tit still took loads of hp off kaiser's explorer. Just because one person can cheat it's fine for someone else to? Harry Kane can be rugby tackled so football should now become rugby?

Furthermore, a macro will probably only work on treasure guardians, as it would be impossible to write a macro that includes moving the mouse from a treasure guardian to a unit. Only the iro explorer could potentially be abused with a macro.

I don't really care about "probably". Macros have been written before for many things and I would assume they can be for this - unless someone who knows lots of coding stuff informs me otherwise.

In casual games, not using these tricks is a gentlemens agreement to begin with. One could also agree to simply not use a macro.

not using these cheats is a gentlemens agreement to begin with. I don't think anything more needs to be said here.

For tournament purposes it might be hard to detect macros.

Who cares if you can detect a macro or not? If they are using one they are cheating, if they aren't they are still cheating.


If you are going to reply, could you try addressing my arguments?

1) Why is it necessarily bad that a trick/bug changes the way the game is played? ESOC Maps change the way the game is played, yet are praised by many. EP changes the way the game is played, yet is praised by many. The creeping trick changes the way the game is played, yet many people use it and I would say many people think that trick is beneficial to gameplay. The pull trick is used widely, yet changes the way the game is played significantly. I'd argue units have a defined speed and were made to run faster sometimes so that the game could use these combat formations fluidly. The fact that people abuse this can be seen as increasing speed by using a bug/trick/exploit similairly to how using the fast shooting trick can be seen as using a bug/trick/exploit to increase the ROF. The fact that it changes the way the game is played doesn't mean it is cheating or that it has a bad effect on the game. In almost all gaming communities, even aoe3's gaming community, tricks/exploits/bugs that have slightly odd behaviour are tolerated or even considered cool. I've posted a big number already: Mineral walking, scourge behaviour when changing mutalisks, medivac drop trick in sc2, creeping in aoe3, scouting with pallisade walls in aoe2, and surely if you do more research you'll realize these things are often accepted. The article on wikipedia on cheating even explicitly states that bugs/tricks/exploits are not necessarily cheats - they may be considered as an improvement to gameplay. So that means that simply stating that this trick changes the way the game is played and actually makes units function differently than might have been intended doesn't classify the usage of the trick as a cheat. The real discussion is about whether the trick is bad or good for the gameplay, and this is a discussion that at the very least has multiple sides to it and isn't nearly as black and white as most people here make it seem. It's similair to the maps discussion: You might like the effect more safe resources have on the gameplay, and you might dislike it. That is a matter of opinion, and there are many arguments for both sides, which means a reasonable discussion could be had. Similairly, we could have a reasonable discussion about this exploit without directly labeling it as bad or cheating. In such a discussion both sides could present arguments as to why this trick has a positive/negative effect on gameplay. I've been doing so, while others have only given a few refuted arguments and have done a terrible job at actually countering the arguments given that claim it's net effect is positive rather than negative. Yet even then it's completely possible to state you dislike the effect of the trick on the gameplay, but it's not founded in logic to state that this glitch is objectively a glitch (refer to all other gaming communities).

2) The Harry Kane argument is such a terrible comparison. Just because Tit can use this trick actually does mean Kaiser can use the trick too. There's nothing unfair in the nature of the trick, its available to both players. If Tit does use it and Kaiser does not know how to use it, then Tit would be better at this part of the game. Saying thats unfair is like saying its unfair that Kane can shoot well while I can't shoot well. Obviously its an extreme exaggeration that this trick has an effect on aoe3 equivalent to an effect that turns football into rugby. Yes, again, this changes the way the game is played, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If one decides that football is more fun because of a video referee, I can't say thats a false statement because a video referee makes sneaky fouls impossible and thus changes the way the game is played; obviously something that changes the way is played can be a positive thing. So then, yes the trick changes the way early game goes. Is that a bad thing? I'd argue no. I'd like to see you argue yes. Instead this 'argument' you presented simply states that the trick changes the way the game is played. As shown in the above, that isn't actually a counterargument, it's simply a statement. I therefore can't actually respond to the argument because it's not an argument but a true statement. I fully agree that this trick can be used to increase dps, as thats the entire intention of the trick. I assumed therefore that you tried to possibly imply that it's unfair that Tit can use this against Kaiser and thus gain and advantage. Yet, as I then responded, Kaiser can obviously use this trick himself and thus the only advantage that can be gained is through having better skill - I think we'd both agree thats the entire point of videogames, to gain advantages by having superior skil to win the game. So then, I fail to see how your statement still has any relevance beyond being an obvious fact that this trick can increase dps.

3)About the macro: I fail to see how you can make a macro that crackshots a guardian, then moves the mouse to the specific location of the enemies unit/explorer, and then cancels the crackshot animation. If it was possible to write a macro for this, one could actually write a macro that selects 5 skirmishers and then focus fires a pikeman, and then we'd have to conclude that focus fire is an exploit? So then the only possible macro is a macro for usage on treasure guardians. This could be considered a negative effect (I'd have been happy if you actually explained why this is a negative effect, but I'll let this go and simply imagine how this could be a negative effect because it'll turn out to be irrelevant shortly) however diarouga has explained that a macro cannot be abused to increase the dps beyond what one manually could do: The speed of this trick is limited by the inherent lag of this game, and thus one cannot reliably use a macro that performs better than when one does this manually. This statement can easily be proven wrong - you'd only need to write a macro and record you doing this insanely fast in an online game. If that is done, we can discuss the negative effect of using a macro of this trick on treasure guardians. As for the probably, it's hard to prove that designing a macro that includes moving the mouse is impossible. That could even be a statement that can't be proven. It can be shown to be wrong though, by creating such a macro. If you wish, I will say its impossible to design a macro that includes moving the mouse and then we'll assume this statement to be true based on the provided logic unless you can come up with a way to write this macro.

4) In the following, you counter my arguments claiming that this shouldn't necessarily be considered a cheat by saying it's a cheat. It would seem there are some logical problems by stating that this is a cheat because it is a cheat, don't you think? That's effectively what you are saying here. Similairly, you're saying this trick should be considered cheating because it is cheating. Again, we are facing the same terrible 'argument'. While we're at it, The flying spaghetti monster should exists because the flying spaghetti monster is an existing creature.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

Garja wrote:It is anyone's with 100 iq points or higher opinion, really.

Are you for real garja? This is not how you argue. Besides, my IQ is higher than 100 so this is a blatant lie.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

Garja wrote:You keep making shit comparisons. How is using Iro the same? RE Iro doesn't necessarily make for dumb games, it makes for unfair ones. Dumb is two explorerers going down and then up 5 secs after that or even instantly just to try to steal stuff. Same dumbness is continuosly reviving iro explorers while in opponent base because it gives aura boost despite getting knocked down every time. It not necessarily better for one side, it is just dumb. Same thing with enabling monstertruck or shit like that.

You give decent arguments as to why alt d is not good for gameplay. The only step that's necessary is for you to admit that the only reason alt d should be considered a cheat is because it has a negative effect on gameplay. In other words, it'd be nice if you didn't insist that any bug is a cheat because it is a bug - this statement has already been proven wrong in this thread.

And then, if you admit that, I'd also be interested in your arguments as to why the explorer fast shooting trick is bad for gameplay. That'd mean your arguments shouldn't be "bugs are cheats", "I am garja and therefore what I say is a fact" and "your IQ is lower than 100" because those aren't actually arguments.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by tabben »

just wow
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by chris1089 »

momuuu wrote:
chris1089 wrote:
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If you are going to reply, could you try addressing my arguments?

1) Why is it necessarily bad that a trick/bug changes the way the game is played? ESOC Maps change the way the game is played, yet are praised by many. EP changes the way the game is played, yet is praised by many. The creeping trick changes the way the game is played, yet many people use it and I would say many people think that trick is beneficial to gameplay. The pull trick is used widely, yet changes the way the game is played significantly. I'd argue units have a defined speed and were made to run faster sometimes so that the game could use these combat formations fluidly. The fact that people abuse this can be seen as increasing speed by using a bug/trick/exploit similairly to how using the fast shooting trick can be seen as using a bug/trick/exploit to increase the ROF. The fact that it changes the way the game is played doesn't mean it is cheating or that it has a bad effect on the game. In almost all gaming communities, even aoe3's gaming community, tricks/exploits/bugs that have slightly odd behaviour are tolerated or even considered cool. I've posted a big number already: Mineral walking, scourge behaviour when changing mutalisks, medivac drop trick in sc2, creeping in aoe3, scouting with pallisade walls in aoe2, and surely if you do more research you'll realize these things are often accepted. The article on wikipedia on cheating even explicitly states that bugs/tricks/exploits are not necessarily cheats - they may be considered as an improvement to gameplay. So that means that simply stating that this trick changes the way the game is played and actually makes units function differently than might have been intended doesn't classify the usage of the trick as a cheat. The real discussion is about whether the trick is bad or good for the gameplay, and this is a discussion that at the very least has multiple sides to it and isn't nearly as black and white as most people here make it seem. It's similair to the maps discussion: You might like the effect more safe resources have on the gameplay, and you might dislike it. That is a matter of opinion, and there are many arguments for both sides, which means a reasonable discussion could be had. Similairly, we could have a reasonable discussion about this exploit without directly labeling it as bad or cheating. In such a discussion both sides could present arguments as to why this trick has a positive/negative effect on gameplay. I've been doing so, while others have only given a few refuted arguments and have done a terrible job at actually countering the arguments given that claim it's net effect is positive rather than negative. Yet even then it's completely possible to state you dislike the effect of the trick on the gameplay, but it's not founded in logic to state that this glitch is objectively a glitch (refer to all other gaming communities).

2) The Harry Kane argument is such a terrible comparison. Just because Tit can use this trick actually does mean Kaiser can use the trick too. There's nothing unfair in the nature of the trick, its available to both players. If Tit does use it and Kaiser does not know how to use it, then Tit would be better at this part of the game. Saying thats unfair is like saying its unfair that Kane can shoot well while I can't shoot well. Obviously its an extreme exaggeration that this trick has an effect on aoe3 equivalent to an effect that turns football into rugby. Yes, again, this changes the way the game is played, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If one decides that football is more fun because of a video referee, I can't say thats a false statement because a video referee makes sneaky fouls impossible and thus changes the way the game is played; obviously something that changes the way is played can be a positive thing. So then, yes the trick changes the way early game goes. Is that a bad thing? I'd argue no. I'd like to see you argue yes. Instead this 'argument' you presented simply states that the trick changes the way the game is played. As shown in the above, that isn't actually a counterargument, it's simply a statement. I therefore can't actually respond to the argument because it's not an argument but a true statement. I fully agree that this trick can be used to increase dps, as thats the entire intention of the trick. I assumed therefore that you tried to possibly imply that it's unfair that Tit can use this against Kaiser and thus gain and advantage. Yet, as I then responded, Kaiser can obviously use this trick himself and thus the only advantage that can be gained is through having better skill - I think we'd both agree thats the entire point of videogames, to gain advantages by having superior skil to win the game. So then, I fail to see how your statement still has any relevance beyond being an obvious fact that this trick can increase dps.

3)About the macro: I fail to see how you can make a macro that crackshots a guardian, then moves the mouse to the specific location of the enemies unit/explorer, and then cancels the crackshot animation. If it was possible to write a macro for this, one could actually write a macro that selects 5 skirmishers and then focus fires a pikeman, and then we'd have to conclude that focus fire is an exploit? So then the only possible macro is a macro for usage on treasure guardians. This could be considered a negative effect (I'd have been happy if you actually explained why this is a negative effect, but I'll let this go and simply imagine how this could be a negative effect because it'll turn out to be irrelevant shortly) however diarouga has explained that a macro cannot be abused to increase the dps beyond what one manually could do: The speed of this trick is limited by the inherent lag of this game, and thus one cannot reliably use a macro that performs better than when one does this manually. This statement can easily be proven wrong - you'd only need to write a macro and record you doing this insanely fast in an online game. If that is done, we can discuss the negative effect of using a macro of this trick on treasure guardians. As for the probably, it's hard to prove that designing a macro that includes moving the mouse is impossible. That could even be a statement that can't be proven. It can be shown to be wrong though, by creating such a macro. If you wish, I will say its impossible to design a macro that includes moving the mouse and then we'll assume this statement to be true based on the provided logic unless you can come up with a way to write this macro.

4) In the following, you counter my arguments claiming that this shouldn't necessarily be considered a cheat by saying it's a cheat. It would seem there are some logical problems by stating that this is a cheat because it is a cheat, don't you think? That's effectively what you are saying here. Similairly, you're saying this trick should be considered cheating because it is cheating. Again, we are facing the same terrible 'argument'. While we're at it, The flying spaghetti monster should exists because the flying spaghetti monster is an existing creature.


Thanks for taking the time to reply in more depth and more logically. I'm cooking right now, but I hope to reply a bit later. I can say your logical structure and arguementation, unlike many on both sides of this arguement, has certainly swayed me on parts of the argument reading it through once. I'll read in more depth and reply in a bit.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by princeofcarthage »

Stop quoting such long essays please, You can just tag/mention to continue convo or quote selected stuff :hmm:
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

well, moesbar can moesbar, but so can you. so not unfair!
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

umeu wrote:well, moesbar can moesbar, but so can you. so not unfair!

Exactly. However, I think I'd be able to make an extremely solid case as to why moesbar has a bad effect on the gameplay and thus should be considered a cheat. Which means my points still stand strong.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Hidddy_ »

Its a cheat/exploit bc it wasn't intended upon programming.
Pull trick, guardians being confined to a radius around the treasure, those were programmed into the game.
Doesn't matter if/how it changes the game, bc it was not intended to be in the game.

It is the same reason why wall macros(or macros of any sort), transparent uis with market trade, and moesbar are not allowed. They are not intended to be in the game.

@momuuu it does not take a dissertation to understand this.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

momuuu wrote:
umeu wrote:well, moesbar can moesbar, but so can you. so not unfair!

Exactly. However, I think I'd be able to make an extremely solid case as to why moesbar has a bad effect on the gameplay and thus should be considered a cheat. Which means my points still stand strong.


that's just your opinion of gameplay though. I think it has a great effect :)
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hidddy_ wrote:Its a cheat/exploit bc it wasn't intended upon programming.
Pull trick, guardians being confined to a radius around the treasure, those were programmed into the game.
Doesn't matter if/how it changes the game, bc it was not intended to be in the game.

It is the same reason why wall macros(or macros of any sort), transparent uis with market trade, and moesbar are not allowed. They are not intended to be in the game.

@momuuu it does not take a dissertation to understand this.

Wall macros (and macros of any sort) and transparent uis with market trade are allowed in tournaments, even though they're not intended to be in the game.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

Hidddy_ wrote:Its a cheat/exploit bc it wasn't intended upon programming.
Pull trick, guardians being confined to a radius around the treasure, those were programmed into the game.
Doesn't matter if/how it changes the game, bc it was not intended to be in the game.

It is the same reason why wall macros(or macros of any sort), transparent uis with market trade, and moesbar are not allowed. They are not intended to be in the game.

@momuuu it does not take a dissertation to understand this.

Come again?

https://youtu.be/rWvoMrYCQBU?t=10m36s
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-str ... ivac-drops

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Glitch
When it comes to the legality of performable glitches however that can have a practical effect, they are generally allowed to be used, as they are perceived to add to the afflicted characters' metagames, such as the Teleport in Smash 64 and Yoyo glitch in Melee. Glitches with only cosmetic effects are also usually allowed in competitive play, such as Melee's stock glitch. However, glitches that break the game or otherwise cause matches to become unplayable for any party, such as by freezing opposing characters or making the user invincible, are universally banned from being used in tournaments; the Freeze glitch in Melee and the Infinite Dimensional Cape in Brawl are two such glitches that are banned in competitive Smash, and use of either of these glitches can potentially lead to the disqualification of the offending party.


https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Bugs
Mineral Walk
This is one of the examples of bugs influencing the way the game is played. A worker send to mine a mineral block in vision of any kind of unit will simply move through any obstacle, such as blocking buildings and units. In Pimpest Plays 2002 this move was used to break a defensive structure. If a moving stack of workers gets a stop/attack/hold command they will un-stack immediately and push surrounding units away. This kind of maneuver is allowed in most leagues for defensive purposes, like SCVs pushing away stasised units from ramps, or to block incoming army masses in 2on2. It is strictly prohibited for offensive measures.

An alternative is the SCV Stack, also prohibited in all leagues and ladders. With a combination of move, patrol and gather commands a Terran can stack up to twelve SCVs permanently and move them around. Even with an attack command those workers will not un-stack. In addition workers can only remain stacked when traveling between minerals; with this however it's not the case.

Hold Lurker
Lurkers can be hindered from attacking permanently. This can be done with two different ways: the lurkers are ordered to attack a structure under the fog of war or get a hold position command when grouped with an overlord. Even if units come into range the lurkers will not attack.

This trick was long time forbidden, but was allowed again since a player could also spam the "stop" command for the same result.

anding Bug
When a Terran landed one of his structures on passing units they exploded. This worked especially on tanks moving in the landing area and sieging shortly before the structure finished the move.

The fix created another kind of glitch, similar to the mineral walk. When a building lands on top of units the units get pushed away from it enabling units to pass over mineral lines. This trick was used by NaDa at BlizzCon 2005 against Yellow and gained him a spot in Pimpest Plays 2005.

There are more quotes that clearly show that bugs aren't necessarily cheats in that link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games
Exploiting is the application of an unintended feature or bug that gives the player an advantage. Exploiting is not seen as cheating universally, some view it as a form of skill because certain exploits take a significant amount of time to find, or dexterity and timing to use.


https://ageofnotes.com/strategies/9-tri ... empires-2/
This contains some videos of clear bug usage, yet clearly isnt considered cheating.

Bugs are clearly not per definition cheating. It does not take a dissertation to understand this.

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