Our next big tournament

Would you like a summer or fall tournament?

Summer
31
46%
Fall
37
54%
 
Total votes: 68

User avatar
Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 8219
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: [VOC] Bram
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Our next big tournament

  • Quote

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Summer is not an option. Do not be wrongly convinced by populism.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Our next big tournament

  • Quote

Post by momuuu »

Papist wrote:I would say summer, because that;s when people are available. During the Fall, a lot of players can't participate because of school.

In practise, the opposite is true.

Summer is the worst time for a tournament. People go on vacation, for one or two weeks maybe, and you'll end up with multiple matches where throughout 2-3 weeks one of the players is on vacation after which they'll need another week to schedule and play their games. They'll delay the tournament, it will drag on and gradually lose interest.

Not to mention organisers, casters and viewers will be on vacation/doing things. I cant believe this is being considered after it was clearly concluded that summer 2015 ended up in the biggest failure in ESOC history mostly because it was during the summer. How can people be so shortsighted and just think "new tournament asap" without taking the whole picture into consideration.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Our next big tournament

  • Quote

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yea Summer 2015 provided bad games because of people being inactive.
User avatar
Germany Makrokosmos12
Skirmisher
Posts: 199
Joined: Aug 17, 2016
ESO: Templer12

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by Makrokosmos12 »

Yeah summer is a bad pick because more people wanna go out and on holidays, instead of sitting inside to practice and play/watch the strim.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by deleted_user0 »

shummer ish gud. ish too hot to go outshide.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Our next big tournament

  • Quote

Post by momuuu »

Here's what I would do:

More is not better. Especially not in this case. After the hype of there being tournaments at all has ended, the tournaments have been plain and uninteresting. I think many people don't value them as much anymore. Why practise for this tournament when there's a next one in a few months, why try to schedule if it doesn't fit your schedule; better luck next time. The hype with viewers seems really low, I wasn't even hyped for the finals and the finals got so few viewers.

I would throw the seasonals in the bin and start hosting one big open event: The age of empires 3 World Championship. This mothafucker needs to get some serious added hype, it needs to be a big deal. To achieve this, make it more clear that there's going to be one hugeass tournament per year from now on. But don't actually give any details. After summer, come out with a sick trailer in some ESOC stream that announces the big tournaments some months in advance. Hopefully this will give players incentive to actually try their best for this tournament. With seasonals you'll just think "I could really practise for this one but in a few months there is a next one so whatever". Make it feel special.

Then look at into the void. I would fill it in 4 ways:
[*] Bring back saturday smackdown, however possible. This was one of the best events I can remember.
[*] The weekend cups seem great. If the experience can be improved this would be awesome, I actually loved the mono civ cup. Overall this puts less consistent stress on the top players (having to play one big match every week, 3 tournaments per year is just unpleasant, which means the tournaments won't get nearly as stacked and thus don't get as much weight/hype), and this provides more games for the casuals. For example, some captain player that loves to play in tournaments can sign up for every weekend tournament and get to play ~2 tournament games per tournament. That's a lot of tournament content to enjoy for the casual player.
[*] one or two invitationals, spread out over two weekends. The invitationals weren't bad at all, I think that might have been the best content I put out myself as a media team member. Somehow n0el concluded it was bad and should never be done again - I don't really know how this is justified. The 2 days for an entire tournament wasn't enough time, but if you get 2 weekends for all of it, it could definitely work (8 player tournament would be 8 games, so about 1 per day). You could even go 16 players then, as players would need to play two games per weekend which definitely seems fine.
[*] Scrap the second chance tournament. I was a fan of this at first but I changed my mind. This puts too much stress on the limited team. Make it abundantly clear that you will support any group of people that decides to host some sort of tournament like this by giving them the forum space. That should easily be enough and matches the quality of tournament that it ends up being.

The thing we're missing the most is a big, important hyped up tournaments that ends up mattering and being succesful. Instead of rushing all shit, and announcing the same stuff that is repetitive and doesn't bring in more than the handful of loyal viewers that anything would bring it, make work of it and blow us away. If this is the plan, I would try to make a trailer like I made for that one tournament but even better. Someone would just have to reach out to me.

This is a cross road imo: Does ESOC continue making the same stuff in a changed environment to slowly watch any true hype die out, or are they willing to take the risk and try their very best to light up that hype again? I hope they chose the latter.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by zoom »

Yes, it needs to be a big deal. Then there needs to be tournaments outside of it, as well.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yea I agree the hype for tourneys has fallen.

For the first ASC tourney, I made sure to have all my week-end free so that I could watch the finals, and I was fucking hyped. It was the first aoe3 tourney for me since I wasn't here during the pkclan era.
Now, to be honest, I haven't watched the stream of the finals of the previous tourney, nor the recs, because it's become common.
One of the issue also is that these tourneys last 2 or 3 fucking months, and it's hard to be hyped during 3 months, unless you're a huge fanboy.

I agree that one huge tourney per year, the aoe3 world championship, where the winner would be considered as the best player of the year would be insane, and bring back the hype. If the other tourneys are smaller (weekly etc), it's totally fine imo.
Though, as I said, it should not be a 3months tourney because it gets boring. Make it a top16 tourney which lasts one month: ro16, ro8, semi finals, finals and that's it.
The goal for these world championship is to get hype in a competitive environnement, not to have an exhausting 3month tourney which starts with top players bashing pr30-

PS: My opinion might sound super biased, but I really like the idea of invitational tourneys, and I'd be happy to have more of these, even from a viewer perspective (which is what I've been for more than 6months).
User avatar
United States of America Papist
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mar 29, 2015
ESO: Papist

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by Papist »

momuuu wrote:
Papist wrote:I would say summer, because that;s when people are available. During the Fall, a lot of players can't participate because of school.

In practise, the opposite is true.

Summer is the worst time for a tournament. People go on vacation, for one or two weeks maybe, and you'll end up with multiple matches where throughout 2-3 weeks one of the players is on vacation after which they'll need another week to schedule and play their games. They'll delay the tournament, it will drag on and gradually lose interest.

Not to mention organisers, casters and viewers will be on vacation/doing things. I cant believe this is being considered after it was clearly concluded that summer 2015 ended up in the biggest failure in ESOC history mostly because it was during the summer. How can people be so shortsighted and just think "new tournament asap" without taking the whole picture into consideration.


No need to be insulting just because I expressed a different opinion than you. Your points are valid, I was just thinking about the issue in a different way.
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by deleted_user »

Big insults tbh.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by momuuu »

zoom wrote:Yes, it needs to be a big deal. Then there needs to be tournaments outside of it, as well.

But not four seasonals. Like you keep wanting. Thats the worst idea of them all imo.
User avatar
Netherlands MCJim
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2819
Joined: Mar 7, 2015
ESO: MCJim
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by MCJim »

Gotta say that I feel Jerom's vision about this. Indeed, the major tournaments decrease in hype. One major per year (world cup, or whatever we call it) + one full weekend tournament per year + an invitational is seriously discussable for me.
:food: My AoE3 YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MCJimAgeofEmpiresIII
:wood: My AoE3 Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/MCJim_


:coin: Age of Streaming YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AgeOfStreaming
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by zoom »

momuuu wrote:
zoom wrote:Yes, it needs to be a big deal. Then there needs to be tournaments outside of it, as well.

But not four seasonals. Like you keep wanting. Thats the worst idea of them all imo.
I think two large and two moderate scheduled tournaments per year is reasonable. What's so terrible about it?
Germany lordraphael
Pro Player
EWTNWC LAN SilverAdvanced Division WinnerDonator 01
Posts: 2549
Joined: Jun 28, 2015

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by lordraphael »

the only problem with big tourneys is that they last to long. if they last for 3 months each ofc you cant have 4 of them in a year. However with tournaments taking only 4 weeks or less we could def have 4.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by Mitoe »

Without delays they should only last 2 months (8 weeks), max. A lot less than that if you're not including the group stage/qualifiers.

I feel like I should make it clear that we will be improving it to prevent delays as much as possible in the future. We've noted from the last 2 major events that delays are especially gruelling on players, and have been far too lenient with delays and extending rounds in recent events, while also insisting too much that matches be rescheduled if they don't fit into our casters' schedules.

In the future we will be more on top of creating scheduling threads (no more Wednesday thread dumps--2 days later than when they should be posted), and will be creating early threads for matches that finish early, so people can get a head start on scheduling their next round if need be, as well as staying more in touch with some of the more... "absent-minded" players throughout the scheduling process.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by deleted_user0 »

Esoc has been far too lenient on a great many things when it comes to tournaments...
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

2 months is still too much honestly. And realistically you can't have a tourney without delays.
User avatar
United States of America giveuanxiety
Advanced Player
Donator 02
Posts: 1988
Joined: Feb 27, 2015
ESO: GiveUAnxiety

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by giveuanxiety »

such a fail when the last tour I was able to play in was the last major tour, which was like a year ago and now people are talking about not having a summer tour. It makes it feel pointless to play the game.
Lasol wrote: :hmm: just Saw a YouTube video with giveyouanexiaty. He Said check youre stove, if you Want to improve youre aoe3 skills.

WHAT does check your stove means? And how do you do it?
User avatar
Spain Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 4276
Joined: Dec 28, 2016
ESO: Snuden
Location: Costa del Baphomet

Re: Our next big tournament

  • Quote

Post by Snuden »

Another reason not to have a summer tourney is that some players live in very warm climates and their mousepad can become damp or worst case scenario, directly wet. This can decrease performance with 10-15% IMO.
[Sith] - Baphomet
User avatar
Austria KINGofOsmane
Pro Player
Posts: 3096
Joined: Feb 24, 2015
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by KINGofOsmane »

only if its summer for u, it doesnt mean that its summer for others ;)
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Lecastete wrote: Dude i hate this game. I am bad and i also dont have luck
Tete cs:go experience
User avatar
Netherlands edeholland
ESOC Community Team
Donator 01
Posts: 5033
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: edeholland
GameRanger ID: 4053888
Clan: ESOC

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by edeholland »

giveuanxiety wrote:such a fail when the last tour I was able to play in was the last major tour, which was like a year ago and now people are talking about not having a summer tour. It makes it feel pointless to play the game.

Autumn?

Also, if you only play for the major tournaments and you are not having fun, you are doing it wrong. I really enjoy those weekend tours myself, it's the first tourney I have participated in.
User avatar
Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 8861
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Location: Milky Way!

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by princeofcarthage »

giveuanxiety wrote:such a fail when the last tour I was able to play in was the last major tour, which was like a year ago and now people are talking about not having a summer tour. It makes it feel pointless to play the game.

Like jim said these weekend tours are about the same length as a seasonal major, and although not a replacement should be considered as good as a major seasonal. If you are playing for prize then the combined prize itself is in excess of 1000$ which is more or less the seasonal one.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Our next big tournament

  • Quote

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

princeofcarthage wrote:
giveuanxiety wrote:such a fail when the last tour I was able to play in was the last major tour, which was like a year ago and now people are talking about not having a summer tour. It makes it feel pointless to play the game.

Like jim said these weekend tours are about the same length as a seasonal major, and although not a replacement should be considered as good as a major seasonal. If you are playing for prize then the combined prize itself is in excess of 1000$ which is more or less the seasonal one.

GUA playing for prize :D
User avatar
United States of America giveuanxiety
Advanced Player
Donator 02
Posts: 1988
Joined: Feb 27, 2015
ESO: GiveUAnxiety

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by giveuanxiety »

weekend tours are not comparable to main tour events at all. That format doesnt work for lots of people. Some people work weekends or have plans and cant commit an entire Saturday to staying in and playing. Also they provide way less hype.
Lasol wrote: :hmm: just Saw a YouTube video with giveyouanexiaty. He Said check youre stove, if you Want to improve youre aoe3 skills.

WHAT does check your stove means? And how do you do it?
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Our next big tournament

Post by pecelot »

seasonal tours are not comparable to weekend events at all. That format doesnt work for lots of people. Some people have to study or have plans and cant commit an entire season to staying in and playing. Also they provide way less hype until the finals.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV