About civ rules..

Netherlands blackwidow
Dragoon
Posts: 451
Joined: Mar 9, 2015
ESO: MASTERdutch

About civ rules..

Post by blackwidow »

Why?

- This game has such a big difference per civs unlike some others (aoe2 for example) that it seems unrealistic to have a rule like this in the first place.
- There is an entire counter system already built in the civs, everything has (or should have) a counter.
- Tournament victories now stand for who's the best all round player more than who's the actual best (I would argue this is a bad thing).

Say there's people like me (but way better) that play just one or two civs because of whatever reason, wouldn't they get countered and lose unless they're much stronger than their opponent regardless of civ rules? Meaning that they'd probably expand towards more civs if they want to win those bo5s anyway.

Don't free picks automatically result into enough variety because of this counter system? or would everyone mirror until the end of days, if so, ban mirrors instead?

I currently really dislike that there isn't a possibility for someone to be so good he can actually dominate with just 1-2 civs.
If all in all the balance is too hard to create for this to be realistic and everyone would just mass pick 1 civ because it has no counters, that makes sense. But think of a scenario where balance revolves solely around counter civs (not hard counters like japan-port or sth) rather than all round balance (the usual go-to), I think that scenario sounds pretty cool.

I'm probably missing out something though, but I don't see it right now so that's that.
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: About civ rules..

Post by Goodspeed »

I think as balance improves, we can look at removing the "play (0.5X + 0.5) different civs in best of X series" rule.
The problem with not having that rule when there are civs that win every match up is that you will only see mirrors. In EP 4.2, you might see only Brit mirrors.
Maybe, hopefully, on EP5 balance is good enough that we can consider removing it. I do think that is the ideal situation, given good enough balance.
User avatar
Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 8861
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Location: Milky Way!

Re: About civ rules..

Post by princeofcarthage »

Being good at one thing doesn't make you good at whole game. The whole games includes 14 civ and 3 game modes, and you are only best if you are better than everyone else at everything or most things actually.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: About civ rules..

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

The issue is that there's always a strongest civ which can't or almost can't be countered.
Honestly, I would only play Brits in the current meta, kaiser would only play ger and in the end it would be a one civ tourney.

In addition, I don't think that someone who's only capable of doing one op strat is the best player, because aoe3, unlike sc2, doesn't have a neat counter build system.
User avatar
No Flag stronk
Skirmisher
Posts: 170
Joined: Oct 25, 2015

Re: About civ rules..

Post by stronk »

I like the way the civ rules have been in autum championship
give that guy a manual
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: About civ rules..

Post by Mitoe »

If you look at older tournaments without civ rules (or different civ rules) you can see that one or two civs were always more dominant or had more presence than all of the others; for example, Japan in WCG2008, or Iro/Otto in PKClan 2013.

I don't think the meta is as clear-cut on EP as it was in those tournaments, and we would likely see a lot more civs (not just Brit, as GS and Diarouga seem to think), but we would for sure get a lot more mirrors. I, for one, would invest a lot less time into learning how to play different civs when I could just practice perfecting mirrors for the meta civ(s) and win that way--it's just much more predictable and I don't need to adapt as much in game this way. And as much as I like playing mirrors (really, I think mirrors are quite fun to play/watch), the average viewer seems to hate watching mirrors more than any other matchup.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: About civ rules..

Post by Garja »

Didn't the mono civ cup showed that people tend to pick different civs already? Next patch iteration it should be even more diverse. We should start considering free pick at least.
Image Image Image
Netherlands blackwidow
Dragoon
Posts: 451
Joined: Mar 9, 2015
ESO: MASTERdutch

Re: About civ rules..

Post by blackwidow »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:The issue is that there's always a strongest civ which can't or almost can't be countered.
Honestly, I would only play Brits in the current meta, kaiser would only play ger and in the end it would be a one civ tourney.

In addition, I don't think that someone who's only capable of doing one op strat is the best player, because aoe3, unlike sc2, doesn't have a neat counter build system.


Isn't there a counter to every strat at the moment? if not, then yeah you got a point that civ is too strong for complete free pick to work
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: About civ rules..

Post by deleted_user0 »

I think it should alternate. Civ rules to promote civ diversity, mono civ pick and free pick to go between those 2. And perhaps even a blind pick one. One tournament this, one tournament the other.

The players that excels in all rule sets are clearly the best.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV