Because I just wasted an hour and half...

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Netherlands edeholland
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by edeholland »

Ashvin wrote:Let's have a civil discussion on making a better system. You guys are beating a dead horse tbh.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by SoldieR »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
IAmSoldieR wrote:Lmao. Great guy^^^

I guess I'm a bad guy cause I don't like cheaters hahaha

Someone link the song "true colors"

I'm not claiming I'm a great guy.
I just hate you because you've been a dick with me for years, even one year before I spread moesbar and you're part of the reason why I spread moesbar yeah.

Anyway, you're the one who brought that up and started to provoke me, don't act as if you were the nicest guy in the community.

I guess it's better to just add you on my ESOC pest list, like I did with SirCallen.

Clearly me and callen are the evil of the community
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by yemshi »

Undeniably.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by lemmings121 »

edeholland wrote:
Ashvin wrote:Let's have a civil discussion on making a better system. You guys are beating a dead horse tbh.


I could help with that too, but im not getting into a flamewarshitfingerpointingfest, I would only participate in a organized system, here is my idea of how this could work:

I would sugest a report forum where anyone can create threads, but only the thread creator and the "anti cheat team" can see the threads. To create a thread you must have a few requirements, like screenshot + agecomm link + explanation (thats minimum, only a print of the post game is too easy to photoshop).

After a while and a majority (unanimity?) of votes from the team in the thread saying the guy indeed cheated, the name of the cheater with a sumarry of what happened would go public somewhere.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by Ashvin »

lemmings121 wrote:
edeholland wrote:
Ashvin wrote:Let's have a civil discussion on making a better system. You guys are beating a dead horse tbh.

I would sugest a report forum where anyone can create threads, but only the thread creator and the "anti cheat team" can see the threads. To create a thread you must have a few requirements, like screenshot + agecomm link + explanation (thats minimum, only a print of the post game is too easy to photoshop).

After a while and a majority (unanimity?) of votes from the team in the thread saying the guy indeed cheated, the name of the cheater with a sumarry of what happened would go public somewhere.

Exactly my point

I could help with that too, but im not getting into a flamewarshitfingerpointingfest, I would only participate in a organized system.

You don't have to, the thread will be created in the name of a bot so that none can be targeted on forums, discord or twitch.

EDIT: But only if it can be implemented. Thoughts? @hleung @Vinyanyérë @kami_ryu @Cometk @XeeleeFlower @Papist
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by pecelot »

outplayed
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

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Post by edeholland »

lemmings121 wrote:
edeholland wrote:
Ashvin wrote:Let's have a civil discussion on making a better system. You guys are beating a dead horse tbh.


I could help with that too, but im not getting into a flamewarshitfingerpointingfest, I would only participate in a organized system, here is my idea of how this could work:

I would sugest a report forum where anyone can create threads, but only the thread creator and the "anti cheat team" can see the threads. To create a thread you must have a few requirements, like screenshot + agecomm link + explanation (thats minimum, only a print of the post game is too easy to photoshop).

After a while and a majority (unanimity?) of votes from the team in the thread saying the guy indeed cheated, the name of the cheater with a sumarry of what happened would go public somewhere.

Yes, I am now thinking of something like the SCC. For those who don't know: only you (the OP) and the comm team can see the threads. In this version, only the team and the OP would be able to see the threads.

We are also discussing this internally at the moment, so no worries @Ashvin, everyone is thinking about it, even though they don't respond here (yet). :smile:
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by edeholland »

No, please don't ruin this thread with a decent discussion by starting about other members. Just comment on the idea in general.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I don't want to start drama. As I said in my previous post, I think Umeu was right more than 80% of the time in his accusations, which thus weren't random.

I agree on the idea in general but I think that to put someone on the cheat list, unanimity should be needed, and there should be at least one person who's not a cheater hunter.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by lemmings121 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I don't want to start drama. As I said in my previous post, I think Umeu was right more than 80% of the time in his accusations, which thus weren't random.

I agree on the idea in general but I think that to put someone on the cheat list, unanimity should be needed, and there should be at least one person who's not a cheater hunter.


hi
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by deleted_user »

Damn I'm on lejend's and diarouga's ESOC ignore list. IMO that's good company and comforting news.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by gryphoon94 »

Personally, I feel these threads should be left up. Especially if there is beyond a reasonable doubt that cheating has occurred. @SoldieR displayed convincing evidence in the post-game graphs that cheats were used by his opponents . There should be nothing wrong with ESO-C protecting the community of cheaters, and I feel that using these forums definitely creates awareness to those legitimate players of those who they should stay away from. I feel for @SoldieR in this situation. Had he known the person was a cheater, he would've left immediately. Instead, he played a 1.5hr game probably thinking the game was legitimate. Had a thread like this been up before hand, Soldier definitely wouldn't have played.

TLDR: ESO-C is indirectly supporting people who cheat by redacting their username from threads which have displayed evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
"I only used Moesbar for 2 years, that's not even long" - SirMusket
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by deleted_user »

I don't see an issue with a vetted ESOC cheaters list tbh. This is going into a topic that's been brought up before but... there's obviously a demand for it and post game graphs give really solid proof and it'd actually help *lessen* these types of posts because the information can be submitted, gleaned, the cheater added, then BAM! It's done and there's no hissy fit like what I threw. It'll *lessen* witch hunts.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by rsy »

IAmSoldieR wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
IAmSoldieR wrote:Lmao. Great guy^^^

I guess I'm a bad guy cause I don't like cheaters hahaha

Someone link the song "true colors"

I'm not claiming I'm a great guy.
I just hate you because you've been a dick with me for years, even one year before I spread moesbar and you're part of the reason why I spread moesbar yeah.

Anyway, you're the one who brought that up and started to provoke me, don't act as if you were the nicest guy in the community.

I guess it's better to just add you on my ESOC pest list, like I did with SirCallen.

Clearly me and callen are the evil of the community

No I think he just realized who the alphas were around here and decided to ignore them cuz otherwise it would hurt his ego
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by tabben »

Posting some screenshots from a game you played isn't a witch hunt..

@admins: Just delete every personal attack against either player and let there be a discussion about the screenshots provided. There should be enough game knowledge on the forums to tell whether the guy must have cheated or that we simply can't be sure that he did.
I don't see the problem with any of these conclusions but they can't be reached when you keep deleting the game stats provided.

A thread like this was actually up some time ago (with the exact same player) but got redacted.
viewtopic.php?f=315&t=14295
gibson streamed his POV and the guy was sending 10huss batches from a single stable. Also the post game stats showed that he gathered nowhere near the amount of gold needed for his huss. :hmm:
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by Gendarme »

In reality screenshots mean nothing. If you are going to trust that the person hasn't forged the screenshots, you might as well just trust his word and not ask for evidence at all. As far as I know, there is no proof unless the game is listed on the ladder. I don't even think a recorded game is proof as I don't think you can see if the game has been played on ESO or not.

Without proof you will get a witch-hunt.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by tabben »

fair enough, im just gonna put this here...
http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameS ... _Supremacy

932 Cav archers and 364 cossacks from less than 40k gold :hmm: Looks like @SoldieR got outplayed by some insane macro!
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by deleted_user »

Gendarme wrote:In reality screenshots mean nothing. If you are going to trust that the person hasn't forged the screenshots, you might as well just trust his word and not ask for evidence at all. As far as I know, there is no proof unless the game is listed on the ladder. I don't even think a recorded game is proof as I don't think you can see if the game has been played on ESO or not.

Without proof you will get a witch-hunt.

Fuck me I forgot digital alteration is a thing. Mfers potentially putting effort into shit like that... sad!

Yeah, well, that makes sense now.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by Mitoe »

Gendarme wrote:In reality screenshots mean nothing. If you are going to trust that the person hasn't forged the screenshots, you might as well just trust his word and not ask for evidence at all. As far as I know, there is no proof unless the game is listed on the ladder. I don't even think a recorded game is proof as I don't think you can see if the game has been played on ESO or not.

Without proof you will get a witch-hunt.

Not really intending to contribute to the discussion on either side here, but you do know that all games show up on ladder unless there's a computer AI in the game, right? Should be simple enough to cross-reference screenshots with stats.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by zoom »

kami_ryu wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
That is absolute nonsense. Your exceptions for allowing this are completely arbitrary (not the garja variety of arbitrary). There are tons of known cheaters you've protected.


"protected" is hardly the appropriate word here
True. Let's go with "fostered" "harbored" or "sheltered".
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by kami_ryu »

zoom wrote:
kami_ryu wrote:
Show hidden quotes


"protected" is hardly the appropriate word here
True. Let's go with "fostered" "harbored" or "sheltered".

you act like we're trying bring up cheaters or something. the idea behind not discussing cheating accusations on the forums isn't based on esoc wanting cheaters to be protected, fostered or sheltered. you know this and so does everyone else. there are different reasons for not having cheating discussions on esoc, which can be discussed obviously. but saying that cheaters are protected is just disingenuous
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by gryphoon94 »

kami_ryu wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
True. Let's go with "fostered" "harbored" or "sheltered".

you act like we're trying bring up cheaters or something. the idea behind not discussing cheating accusations on the forums isn't based on esoc wanting cheaters to be protected, fostered or sheltered. you know this and so does everyone else. there are different reasons for not having cheating discussions on esoc, which can be discussed obviously. but saying that cheaters are protected is just disingenuous


So what's the reason for not allowing cheating accusations with evidence that is beyond a reasonable doubt? I totally understand your stance in cases where there is no evidence, but that's just not the case here.
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by XeeleeFlower »

@gryphoon94 Some of the common arguments are:
Promotion of negative discussion.
ESOC isn't supposed to be a site geared toward reporting cheaters/hackers and it could become this.
It takes time to go through all the evidence and people may not have the time so a humongous backlog could occur causing further frustration.
The only people who can actually act on the accusation is Microsoft.

As has already been mentioned, this topic is one that has been discussed many times. We are discussing it in depth internally and should have some sort of definitive answer soon. ("Soon" is subjective. :P )
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But our past is a ghost fading out that at night it’s still haunting.

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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by kami_ryu »

gryphoon94 wrote:
kami_ryu wrote:
Show hidden quotes

you act like we're trying bring up cheaters or something. the idea behind not discussing cheating accusations on the forums isn't based on esoc wanting cheaters to be protected, fostered or sheltered. you know this and so does everyone else. there are different reasons for not having cheating discussions on esoc, which can be discussed obviously. but saying that cheaters are protected is just disingenuous


So what's the reason for not allowing cheating accusations with evidence that is beyond a reasonable doubt? I totally understand your stance in cases where there is no evidence, but that's just not the case here.


I don't know and I don't give a shit. Ask some other mod. It's just irritating to see that a post that says "ESOC protects cheaters".
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Re: Because I just wasted an hour and half...

Post by InsectPoison »

kami_ryu wrote:
gryphoon94 wrote:
Show hidden quotes


So what's the reason for not allowing cheating accusations with evidence that is beyond a reasonable doubt? I totally understand your stance in cases where there is no evidence, but that's just not the case here.


I don't know and I don't give a shit. Ask some other mod. It's just irritating to see that a post that says "ESOC protects cheaters".


This is exactly the type of behaviour i expected from ESOC mods , they don't care at all about cheaters and how they are ruining the game but will always come out with some stupid "no witch hunt " excuse when there is clear evidance of cheating going on. If you are not mature enough to reply to a serious topic as a mod then i suggest you step down and fuck off.
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