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Kiribati SirCallen
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14 May 2018, 13:55

Googol wrote:If you Master what callen mentioned then you become an Callenel

Or a Callenlel
Always / Unique / Totally / Intelligent / Sometimes / Mysterious
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No Flag Djigit
Dragoon
Posts: 284

14 May 2018, 14:05

There is no secret and don't expect concrete pieces of advice; it works same in real life. Hard work.
The most important factor is time. The more you play, the better you get.
However, time doesn't matter if you are not willing to improve! Therefore, you should step out of your comfort zone as soon as you master - at your own level - a civilization, a build order or a match-up. There are a lot of examples of players whose level stagnate, because they do the same thing and make the same mistakes over and over again.
Nobody likes to lose, yet don't be afraid to lose. Ego and ELO stats are your worst enemies.

Easier said than done.
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European Union bwinner1
Dragoon
Posts: 482

14 May 2018, 14:09

We can a lot of differnent opinions about how to become a good player : macro, micro, BO, decisionning ?
I don't think there is one good answer for everyone. Everyone is different.



For my personnal experience : I am not great but ok on terms of micro/macro/strat (at least for the MUs I know well) but really terrible at décision making. Thé problem is that decision making depends a lot of the individual in my opinion, and I would Say that's the main reason for tons of people like me to not become a top player even though they tried rly to improve. I can see that's my problem because most of the time when I lose a game I perfectly know why I lost it : a wrong age up, pushing not at the right time, wrong unit composition and a lot of bad scouting. The problem is that there is not much to do for players like me, bc like didjit Say, that't like on real like, so not anybody can be good at everything, there is just some more tallented people.
I think the best thing to do is to stop trying to improve and enjoy the game.
When you are talking with an idiot, he may be doing the same
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Cyprus Snuden
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Location: Asgard

14 May 2018, 14:10

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Snuden wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I used to be stubbornly stuck in age 2 massing lb's and hussars, last few days I have started to go to age 3, slightly after my opponent and go lb's and dragoons. Good results so far. Another thing I am trying is to make walls, not GUA walls, but rather small pieces here and there. My macro is not THAT bad, room for improvement though.

Well, I could be wrong but I think that if you're stuck at the lieutenant level it's mostly because of bad macro skills.

The main reasons I am as bad as I am is mostly because of my terrible micro and I have no clue when to push or not.

If you are below pr30, it's not because of your micro: it's a consequence of your macro and your game understanding. Knowing when you should push is indeed big, and improving that would make you improve a lot.

Scouting my opponent basically don't help me at all xD

Trying out hotkeys atm and just today I beat India for the first time (I think) wit h a LB/Goon combo. With 2 falcs in the background.

Try musk/lb+2falcs vs India. I know it sounds awkward but you need the musks to tank the sepoys hits because else lb die super fast.

Those grenadier kinda guys from the saloon are pretty rad to mix in, when it's time to seal the victory!

A shame we couldn't connect on ESO, thanks for trying though.

Will rec some gamesh tonight and upload somewhere, you can have a watch and a kek.
Today I finally thought of adding all my unit infrastructure in a hotkey, yet to be battle tested though.
I ain't gonna work for Maggies mom no more...!
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Cyprus Snuden
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Posts: 1854
ESO: Snuden
Location: Asgard

14 May 2018, 14:13

Djigit wrote:There is no secret and don't expect concrete pieces of advice; it works same in real life. Hard work.
The most important factor is time. The more you play, the better you get.
However, time doesn't matter if you are not willing to improve! Therefore, you should step out of your comfort zone as soon as you master - at your own level - a civilization or a build order. There are a lot of examples of players who stagnate, because they do the same thing and make the same mistakes over and over again.
Nobody likes to lose, yet don't be afraid to lose. Ego and ELO stats are your worst enemy.

Easier said than done.

Like totally agree, I have made the same mistakes for well over 1000 games and have pretty much stayed at my current PR for a year. Why? I simply refused to change my style - for reasons unknown. :roll:
I ain't gonna work for Maggies mom no more...!
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Armenia Sargsyan
Dragoon
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ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger Id: 2106182

14 May 2018, 14:14

Snuden wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Will rec some gamesh tonight and upload somewhere, you can have a watch and a kek.
Today I finally thought of adding all my unit infrastructure in a hotkey, yet to be battle tested though.

Youre going to have pr boost soon,i hope you can handle the fame doe
"oh God what is your problem now? You can't poop?" - QueenOfDestiny
Greece tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 2861
ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece
Game: AoE Online
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14 May 2018, 14:18

It should be harder to improve these days because its not as easy to find games
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Cyprus Snuden
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ESO: Snuden
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14 May 2018, 14:19

Sargsyan wrote:
Snuden wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Will rec some gamesh tonight and upload somewhere, you can have a watch and a kek.
Today I finally thought of adding all my unit infrastructure in a hotkey, yet to be battle tested though.

Youre going to have pr boost soon,i hope you can handle the fame doe

I highly doubt it but I can certainly see how the hotkey thing will improve things drastically.
My previous method of placing them next to mt TC and then click "T" and then manually click on my barracks is not the greatest.
I ain't gonna work for Maggies mom no more...!
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Armenia Sargsyan
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ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger Id: 2106182

14 May 2018, 14:43

Snuden wrote:
Sargsyan wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Youre going to have pr boost soon,i hope you can handle the fame doe

I highly doubt it but I can certainly see how the hotkey thing will improve things drastically.
My previous method of placing them next to mt TC and then click "T" and then manually click on my barracks is not the greatest.

With hotkeys u can train a unit in a second without having to look for a rax or a stable, find them, then click with a mouse.in the time you are training units like that u can just use hotkeys and micro your army while fighting.u cant imagine how much of an impact it has on the game.u even want to hotkey manors building as your booming becomes faster and easier
"oh God what is your problem now? You can't poop?" - QueenOfDestiny
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Cyprus Snuden
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Location: Asgard

14 May 2018, 14:52

Sargsyan wrote:
Snuden wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I highly doubt it but I can certainly see how the hotkey thing will improve things drastically.
My previous method of placing them next to mt TC and then click "T" and then manually click on my barracks is not the greatest.

With hotkeys u can train a unit in a second without having to look for a rax or a stable, find them, then click with a mouse.in the time you are training units like that u can just use hotkeys and micro your army while fighting.u cant imagine how much of an impact it has on the game.u even want to hotkey manors building as your booming becomes faster and easier

How do I add 2 barracks if they are not within the same screen? As long as they are in the same screen I can just double click a barracks and then all are selected, something with "shift" I assume?
I ain't gonna work for Maggies mom no more...!
Greece tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 2861
ESO: Tedere12
Location: Greece
Game: AoE Online
GameRanger Id: 4253320

14 May 2018, 14:54

yeah click the rax and then shift + click the other rax. Or click the rax and then pres "select all of one type" hotkey and it selects all raxes.
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Armenia Sargsyan
Dragoon
Posts: 481
ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger Id: 2106182

14 May 2018, 14:59

I set rax on 2 and select all of the same type to "` " the one key on top of tab.so basicallt if i want to train skirm from few barracks i just click 2 then ` then s (skirm hotkey) it takes like a second to train 15 skirms from 3 raxes built in different parts of the map
"oh God what is your problem now? You can't poop?" - QueenOfDestiny
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European Union bwinner1
Dragoon
Posts: 482

14 May 2018, 15:34

Sargsyan wrote:I set rax on 2 and select all of the same type to "` " the one key on top of tab.so basicallt if i want to train skirm from few barracks i just click 2 then ` then s (skirm hotkey) it takes like a second to train 15 skirms from 3 raxes built in different parts of the map

It's faster to use the "select all rax" hotkey if you want to do do. Though the best technique might be to put thé rax in a control groupe because then you can remake thé group when you have to Manu rax on very late game+you can put the agra fort info this group if you are a lamer.
When you are talking with an idiot, he may be doing the same
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Armenia Sargsyan
Dragoon
Posts: 481
ESO: Sargsyan
Location: Armenia
GameRanger Id: 2106182

14 May 2018, 15:36

bwinner1 wrote:
Sargsyan wrote:I set rax on 2 and select all of the same type to "` " the one key on top of tab.so basicallt if i want to train skirm from few barracks i just click 2 then ` then s (skirm hotkey) it takes like a second to train 15 skirms from 3 raxes built in different parts of the map

It's faster to use the "select all rax" hotkey if you want to do do. Though the best technique might be to put thé rax in a control groupe because then you can remake thé group when you have to Manu rax on very late game+you can put the agra fort info this group if you are a lamer.

I had the hotkeys set like that but sometimes you want to train different type of units at the same time.also putting in a group every game is annoying
"oh God what is your problem now? You can't poop?" - QueenOfDestiny
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
Posts: 6412
Location: France

14 May 2018, 20:14

bwinner1 wrote:We can a lot of differnent opinions about how to become a good player : macro, micro, BO, decisionning ?
I don't think there is one good answer for everyone. Everyone is different.



For my personnal experience : I am not great but ok on terms of micro/macro/strat (at least for the MUs I know well) but really terrible at décision making. Thé problem is that decision making depends a lot of the individual in my opinion, and I would Say that's the main reason for tons of people like me to not become a top player even though they tried rly to improve. I can see that's my problem because most of the time when I lose a game I perfectly know why I lost it : a wrong age up, pushing not at the right time, wrong unit composition and a lot of bad scouting. The problem is that there is not much to do for players like me, bc like didjit Say, that't like on real like, so not anybody can be good at everything, there is just some more tallented people.
I think the best thing to do is to stop trying to improve and enjoy the game.

There is no talent factor in aoe3 imo.
Tbh if your decision making doesn't improve it's because you don't play enough games. I think that playing a few games here and there don't make you improve at all, you have to commit full time, I used to play 10-15 games a day during one week each holiday 2 or 3 years ago, and that's when I started to improve.
Furthermore, an issue is knowing how to learn. I'm not talented at all, and it took me years to get decent at this game, but since I knew how to learn, I think that with time I'd get better: watching my recs in order to find my mistakes, and my opponent's. It's very important to understand the opponent's mistakes, because as I said in another thread, what makes the difference between an average player and a good player is that the top player will punish every single mistake his opponent makes and get ahead, so knowing how to identify and punish mistakes is key ; and the difference between a good player and a great player, is that on top of punishing his opponent's mistakes, the great player will trap him and make him do even more mistakes.
Great Britain WickedCossack
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1560

14 May 2018, 20:35

Improve apm.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Posts: 6412
Location: France

14 May 2018, 20:37

Nah, APM doesn't matter. There are players who got stucked at the captain level with great APM (250+) like Butifle, MiniMart etc, and there are players who went very far in tourney with very low APM (think of Boneng)
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European Union bwinner1
Dragoon
Posts: 482

14 May 2018, 20:37

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:We can a lot of differnent opinions about how to become a good player : macro, micro, BO, decisionning ?
I don't think there is one good answer for everyone. Everyone is different.



For my personnal experience : I am not great but ok on terms of micro/macro/strat (at least for the MUs I know well) but really terrible at décision making. Thé problem is that decision making depends a lot of the individual in my opinion, and I would Say that's the main reason for tons of people like me to not become a top player even though they tried rly to improve. I can see that's my problem because most of the time when I lose a game I perfectly know why I lost it : a wrong age up, pushing not at the right time, wrong unit composition and a lot of bad scouting. The problem is that there is not much to do for players like me, bc like didjit Say, that't like on real like, so not anybody can be good at everything, there is just some more tallented people.
I think the best thing to do is to stop trying to improve and enjoy the game.

There is no talent factor in aoe3 imo.
Tbh if your decision making doesn't improve it's because you don't play enough games. I think that playing a few games here and there don't make you improve at all, you have to commit full time, I used to play 10-15 games a day during one week each holiday 2 or 3 years ago, and that's when I started to improve.
Furthermore, an issue is knowing how to learn. I'm not talented at all, and it took me years to get decent at this game, but since I knew how to learn, I think that with time I'd get better: watching my recs in order to find my mistakes, and my opponent's. It's very important to understand the opponent's mistakes, because as I said in another thread, what makes the difference between an average player and a good player is that the top player will punish every single mistake his opponent makes and get ahead, so knowing how to identify and punish mistakes is key ; and the difference between a good player and a great player, is that on top of punishing his opponent's mistakes, the great player will trap him and make him do even more mistakes.


I know for long that I don't improve anymore, try-harding like hell to improve was the last thing I didn't really try until 9 months ago when I commited to full time trying to improve, playing all the time with kaiser and really analysing my misstakes. But it didn't work at all, I didn't improve at all and when I got destroyed 3-0 by hazza last tourney, I totally gave up about this^^
When you are talking with an idiot, he may be doing the same
Great Britain WickedCossack
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1560

14 May 2018, 21:18

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Nah, APM doesn't matter. There are players who got stucked at the captain level with great APM (250+) like Butifle, MiniMart etc, and there are players who went very far in tourney with very low APM (think of Boneng)


Mechanics matters the most for improving which is what the topic is about. I should probably have said that instead of APM since they are slightly different.

Strategy is almost irrelevant for improving unless it's some obscure case like Minimart who just doesn't know the game because he doesn't play it.

Though that's not to say that strategy is unimportant in the outcome of an individual match. It probably is worth at least 50%. But for improving I'd say it's only worth 5%. That's where the confusion comes in.

As poor as Boneng's mechanics look they are still superior to 99.9% of players.

I'd go as far to say the majority of people never improve because they focus too much on the strategy. It comes naturally with improved mechanics anyways because you have access to better scouting and can play multitask heavy strats so you learn more.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Posts: 6412
Location: France

14 May 2018, 21:24

WickedCossack wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Nah, APM doesn't matter. There are players who got stucked at the captain level with great APM (250+) like Butifle, MiniMart etc, and there are players who went very far in tourney with very low APM (think of Boneng)


Mechanics matters the most for improving which is what the topic is about. I should probably have said that instead of APM since they are slightly different.

Strategy is almost irrelevant for improving unless it's some obscure case like Minimart who just doesn't know the game because he doesn't play it.

Though that's not to say that strategy is unimportant in the outcome of an individual match. It probably is worth at least 50%. But for improving I'd say it's only worth 5%. That's where the confusion comes in.

As poor as Boneng's mechanics look they are still superior to 99.9% of players.

I'd go as far to say the majority of people never improve because they focus too much on the strategy. It comes naturally with improved mechanics anyways because you have access to better scouting and can play multitask heavy strats so you learn more.

Well, quite the opposite for me.
I'd say that people who don't improve don't because they blame their loss on their micro/multitasking while it's because of bad macro/bad strategy/bad timing/bad positioning.
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European Union bwinner1
Dragoon
Posts: 482

14 May 2018, 21:36

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
WickedCossack wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Nah, APM doesn't matter. There are players who got stucked at the captain level with great APM (250+) like Butifle, MiniMart etc, and there are players who went very far in tourney with very low APM (think of Boneng)


Mechanics matters the most for improving which is what the topic is about. I should probably have said that instead of APM since they are slightly different.

Strategy is almost irrelevant for improving unless it's some obscure case like Minimart who just doesn't know the game because he doesn't play it.

Though that's not to say that strategy is unimportant in the outcome of an individual match. It probably is worth at least 50%. But for improving I'd say it's only worth 5%. That's where the confusion comes in.

As poor as Boneng's mechanics look they are still superior to 99.9% of players.

I'd go as far to say the majority of people never improve because they focus too much on the strategy. It comes naturally with improved mechanics anyways because you have access to better scouting and can play multitask heavy strats so you learn more.

Well, quite the opposite for me.
I'd say that people who don't improve don't because they blame their loss on their micro/multitasking while it's because of bad macro/bad strategy/bad timing/bad positioning.

Maybe it dépends at wich level aswell, Imo I can do whatever bs strat I will win vs a pr15, even if he has a perfect BO written just befor him.
When you are talking with an idiot, he may be doing the same
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Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
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Posts: 2910
ESO: Mitoe
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14 May 2018, 21:38

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Well, quite the opposite for me.
I'd say that people who don't improve don't because they blame their loss on their micro/multitasking while it's because of bad macro/bad strategy/bad timing/bad positioning.

And yet, anytime I've ever tried to coach anyone they always blame civ/matchup/map/patch/etc. while asserting that their mechanics are fine.

People who don't improve usually don't blame themselves, just the game itself.


Obviously, you can only get so far on mechanics and strategy by itself. WickedCossack and I actually discussed this a while back, and it doesn't matter how good your build order is if you can't execute it. New strategies open up as you improve your mechanics, and as you begin to understand your build order more deeply you need better mechanics to perfect it or adapt into certain situations, etc.
Germany lordraphael
Howdah
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Posts: 1981

14 May 2018, 21:41

I blame the game whenever i lose.
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Posts: 6412
Location: France

14 May 2018, 21:45

Mitoe wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Well, quite the opposite for me.
I'd say that people who don't improve don't because they blame their loss on their micro/multitasking while it's because of bad macro/bad strategy/bad timing/bad positioning.

And yet, anytime I've ever tried to coach anyone they always blame civ/matchup/map/patch/etc. while asserting that their mechanics are fine.

People who don't improve usually don't blame themselves, just the game itself.

Well, people who blame the game don't even want to improve, that's different.
Apparently we've had a different experience because it's been the opposite for me most of the time, the people I've tried to coach would often think that they lost because of their micro while most of the time, and they don't understand it, it's because of bad macro and bad decisions.
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United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
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Posts: 3169

14 May 2018, 21:53

Mechanics matter a lot. I’m finding it’s hard to judge team fights because when I say go the path forward may not be as obviously. I end up calling fights we lose as I think it’s because we don’t fight them the same way as I would. You can quickly see windows of opportunity open and close with practice but your mechanics change which fights you can take even.

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