Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Which map has better tp line?

Mendocino
5
33%
Iowa
10
67%
 
Total votes: 15

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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by princeofcarthage »

So me and @bwinner @bwinnner were having discussion as to which map has better tp line, I will post my explanation later as to why I think mendocino has better, but what do you guys think?
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by bwinner »

viewtopic.php?f=158&t=7091
you can see here that mendocino has by far the lowest gathering rate/TP/sec. Iwoa wasn't realised back there but it is well known that it's one of the best road for it gathering rate/TP/sec and that's especially good for giving you 100res per pass, which is excellent for your wood macro. On the other side, mendocino has one more TP ofc, but I need to say that we were actually talking about an atp build which means you need to take the nativ TP and the map control it gives in account aswell, and Iowa is a lot better there.
By the way if you check the link I posted you can see that the good 3 TP maps give more ress per sec than mendocino -so it should be the case for Iowa- this despite having to pay for one less TP.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by deleted_user0 »

TP line is irrelevant. The problem is that Iowa gap is too small and often blocked with all trees and shit
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by princeofcarthage »

Mendocino:
It has 2 carts.

1 tp = 34 res/30 sec or 1.13/sec (the amount of time cart takes to pass the same tp again)
2 tp = 68 res/30 sec or 2.26/sec
3 tp = 102 res/30 sec or 3.39/sec
4 tp = 136 res/30 sec or 4.52/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 15 sec ( age 1 )

Iowa:

1 tp = 100 res/90 sec or 1.11/sec
2 tp = 200 res/90 sec or 2.22/sec
3 tp = 300 res/90sec or 3.33/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 30 sec ( age 1 )
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by princeofcarthage »

somppukunkku wrote:TP line is irrelevant. The problem is that Iowa gap is too small and often blocked with all trees and shit

We are talking specifically about tp line and not map and you say tp line is irrelevant, please read post ;/
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by tabben »

Just battle it out in a BO5 like any sane person would do, @Kaiserqueen you casting this?
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by bwinner »

princeofcarthage wrote:Mendocino:
It has 2 carts.

1 tp = 34 res/30 sec or 1.13/sec (the amount of time cart takes to pass the same tp again)
2 tp = 68 res/30 sec or 2.26/sec
3 tp = 102 res/30 sec or 3.39/sec
4 tp = 136 res/30 sec or 4.52/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 15 sec ( age 1 )

Iowa:

1 tp = 100 res/90 sec or 1.11/sec
2 tp = 200 res/90 sec or 2.22/sec
3 tp = 300 res/90sec or 3.33/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 30 sec ( age 1 )

This figures are bs that just come out of your ass lol. 2 carts or one doesn't change anything : this 2 cats give (actually slightly less than) the half as if it was only one cat on a bigger road.
Come on, Iowa would be 200res/min while every other 3 TP maps are between 350 and 450 as you can see here : viewtopic.php?f=158&t=7091
And same, according to you, mendocino is 270ress/min, while other 4 TP maps are arround 450 ?^^
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by princeofcarthage »

bwinner1 wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:Mendocino:
It has 2 carts.

1 tp = 34 res/30 sec or 1.13/sec (the amount of time cart takes to pass the same tp again)
2 tp = 68 res/30 sec or 2.26/sec
3 tp = 102 res/30 sec or 3.39/sec
4 tp = 136 res/30 sec or 4.52/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 15 sec ( age 1 )

Iowa:

1 tp = 100 res/90 sec or 1.11/sec
2 tp = 200 res/90 sec or 2.22/sec
3 tp = 300 res/90sec or 3.33/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 30 sec ( age 1 )

This figures are bs that just come out of your ass lol. 2 carts or one doesn't change anything : this 2 cats give (actually slightly less than) the half as if it was only one cat on a bigger road.

You are free to calculate these stats on map, its not something that I whipped up.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by bwinner »

princeofcarthage wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:Mendocino:
It has 2 carts.

1 tp = 34 res/30 sec or 1.13/sec (the amount of time cart takes to pass the same tp again)
2 tp = 68 res/30 sec or 2.26/sec
3 tp = 102 res/30 sec or 3.39/sec
4 tp = 136 res/30 sec or 4.52/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 15 sec ( age 1 )

Iowa:

1 tp = 100 res/90 sec or 1.11/sec
2 tp = 200 res/90 sec or 2.22/sec
3 tp = 300 res/90sec or 3.33/sec

time taken by cart to reach from 1 tp to other = 30 sec ( age 1 )

This figures are bs that just come out of your ass lol. 2 carts or one doesn't change anything : this 2 cats give (actually slightly less than) the half as if it was only one cat on a bigger road.

You are free to calculate these stats on map, its not something that I whipped up.

I don't need, since lordraphael did it for me already^^
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by deleted_user0 »

princeofcarthage wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:TP line is irrelevant. The problem is that Iowa gap is too small and often blocked with all trees and shit

We are talking specifically about tp line and not map and you say tp line is irrelevant, please read post ;/

I did but priorities are priorities
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by princeofcarthage »

I don't how to tell you that raphael's calculations actually gather more resources than my calculations, but like I said that was before mendocino trade route was nerfed.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by lordraphael »

mendo has a pretty bad tp line. I think iowa is a pretty good line. But mendo has 1 tp more so obviously youll get a bit more res than on iowa. Also not sure how you come up with your numbers. Seems like you didnt do a longer test which is why youre numbers are off.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by Kaiserklein »

Iowa:
- the early TP is insane, gives you 3 vils instantly
- each TP gives 100 res which is insane for the wood macro (fuck you bwinner that's my argument)
- long TP line means more income per TP.
- once you have the control of the TPs, it's harder for your opponent to deny them, because they're all far in the middle and the chokes are easy to control, and it's only 3 TPs to defend

Mendocino:
- the early TP is one of the worst in the game
- the TPs give almost nothing but you get a lot of passes, very hard to macro, though arguably more flexible I guess
- do mendocino's 4 tps even bring more income than iowa's 3 tps for a given time?
- easier to grab 1 or 2 TPs since there's TPs close to your base. But harder to control a full stagecoach


Iowa is better. That's not something you calculate, just something you know by playing on both maps and getting stagecoach. That's my subjective answer, based on experience.
If you want a mathematical answer about which one is better, you would first need to define "better" anyway. And the proper way to calculate the res income is to just let stagecoach run for a long while and then divide by the total time.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by lordraphael »

well if you get all 4 tps mendo is better in the long run. But only by a slight margin. Back when i did those tests i thinl mendo barely surpassed really good 3 tp maps and iowa is a pretty good 3 tp map casue of the long route. Also getting 4 tps is very hard on mendo and not really feasible with most civs early on. Overall iowa >mendo id say.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah maybe I'll do the calculations again to make sure which map brings more res in with a full stagecoach. But anyway yeah 4 tps line on mendocino is much harder to get than 3 tp line on iowa, also much harder to defend, and you need to pay an extra 200w at start.

Ah and I forgot to mention that earlier, but when you research stagecoach, the travois actually finishes instantly its trip on the tp line and grants xp to all tps it crosses. That's definitely much more free xp on iowa than on mendocino
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

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Post by bwinner »

conclusion : sit down @princeofcarthage
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by princeofcarthage »

These are the results upon 10 min testing on each map.

Iowa :
3520

1173.33 res/tp 10 min
117.33 res/tp/min

Mendocino :
4234

1058.5 res/tp 10 min
105.85 res/tp/min
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by Garja »

It's about the same thing. I mean it's 1.11 vs 1.13. There are maps that give 1.25 or ven more.
In general shorter routes are better because the income is more similar to a trickle.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by yemshi »

It's about your possibility to secure them.
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by Kaiserklein »

princeofcarthage wrote:These are the results upon 10 min testing on each map.

Iowa :
3520

1173.33 res/tp 10 min
117.33 res/tp/min

Mendocino :
4234

1058.5 res/tp 10 min
105.85 res/tp/min

Ok so mendocino still brings more. But when you remove 200w because you need to pay for an extra tp on mendo, it's only a 500 res difference after 10 min, and mendo has all the drawbacks we mentioned earlier
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Re: Tp line Mendocino vs Iowa

Post by gibson »

Well there is something to be said for shorter routes being better. It’s better for macro to get a small amount of resources several times than a large amount one time.

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