Is creeping treasures cheating?

User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ashvin wrote:I don't think alt-d and using rotator mod are comparable. Rotator mod is "created" and "distributed" to all people. While alt-d bypasses the rules made by devs at eso that only after your hero is 100hp he is able to be revived. I have played against people who use rotator mod and I never frowned on them or flamed them. But I just cannot accept anyone using alt-d in my game. Because it takes skills and time to scout and kill opponent's hero (which is very important if your opponent is jap). If you really want your hero you can just give ransom which is specially created for this purpose.

You're ignoring my point.
I'm not making an argument for alt d, I'm saying that you don't allow people to disagree with you, which should be an issue.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by deleted_user0 »

how are u not allowed to disagree? is your opinion deleted? are you deleted? if you're allowed to think alt-d is not cheating and totally fine, then other people are allowed to think you're a cheater. you're not discriminated against, you're not threatened against, you're not censored. what exactly is the point then?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:how are u not allowed to disagree? is your opinion deleted? are you deleted? if you're allowed to think alt-d is not cheating and totally fine, then other people are allowed to think you're a cheater. you're not discriminated against, you're not threatened against, you're not censored. what exactly is the point then?

That you can't call a moesbar user a cheater while someone who thinks alt d is fine is a cheater.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Garja »

They are on the same page.
Image Image Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Kaiserklein »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Haha I expected this kind of answer from you or from garja :P
What's happening here is that you guys can't deny the truth ( even though as garja said, the choices made have some legitimity) so you go personal.

I don't really see what truth you're talking about. For a guy saying "there's no objectivity", talking about "truth" seems kind of weird anyway.
And I have good reasons to go personal. It's always the same people who lag/use glitches/use macros/get transparent ui with market trades/etc. You can call it a coincidence, I call it people who aren't legit. Always trying to download some external help or to abuse bugs... It's just not the kind of people you want in your lobby.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:By the way, I don't have issues playing without glitches, I don't use alt d, fast shooting, and I use building rotator because the EP added it to the game, so I don't know where that comes from :P
Still, I don't use these because there's an agreement amoung players not to use it, and I know that my opponents won't use it, but I argue against the ESOC decisions to ban building rotator or fast shooting from the game (which is paradoxical since they added the building rotator).

You might not use glitches (though I'm sure you did use alt d a lot in the past, and you said before on these forums that you use the explorer crackshot glitch), but you still advocate their use, which is just as bad.
Build rotator got nothing to do with this discussion, it's irrelevant compared to alt d or crackshot glitch.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I can be right, I can be wrong, there's no objectivity, just opinions but what's funny is that instead of saying « we decided after discussions to ban these abuses from the game» you make it look like as if there was only one reasonable opinion, your, and you call the others «dumb» or «cheesy».

Of course there is objectivity sometimes. Or are you gonna tell me that banning moesbar hacks is subjective, for example?
The crackshot bug is objectively game breaking. As explained tons of times, it conflicts with the explorer ROF. The ROF is a stat, the explo's ROF is supposed to be 3, and not less. This is like using a bug to get 100 attack instead of 15, for example. No matter how much apm it takes, it is not acceptable.
And same goes for alt d, as said hundreds of times: there is a reason why you're supposed to either pay 100g or wait till explo has 100 hp + you have a unit nearby. It's just the way the explorer was designed. Alt d just objectively kills the way the explorer is supposed to work. No one cares if your opponent gets extra xp in the process. It just destroys a game mechanic.
Now please, tell me how that was not objective. It's not a matter of opinions here.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:That's the strategy dictators use against their opponents actually, they impose their ideas, and call the people who disagree terrorists to quiet them.

No one is imposing anything lol. You're can stop posting on ESOC if you're not happy. You can even use these glitches on RE. And people can think what they want about you.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Dyddy, Tit, kynesie and me, even if you don't like us, are people who also play the game, so I don't know what's your point.
Finally, I'm indeed trying to be controversial because I want to show that there's a lack of objectivity in these decisions (though it's not going to change anything). Still, I think that I have the right to have an opinion on the matter without getting considered as a dumbass, a cheater, or even worse: a cheesy guy.

You play the game, and also you play around the game.
Again, I don't see what's subjective about the decisions. I could understand if you said that about the rotator mod, since they added it into EP. But regarding alt d and crackshot glitch, just no.
And again, you have the right to have whatever opinion, and people have the right to consider you what they want. By being controversial, you should expect some people to dislike you anyway, since it's the point of being controversial.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Shouldnt listen to someone who distributed moesbar hacks anyway
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kaiserklein wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Haha I expected this kind of answer from you or from garja :P
What's happening here is that you guys can't deny the truth ( even though as garja said, the choices made have some legitimity) so you go personal.

I don't really see what truth you're talking about. For a guy saying "there's no objectivity", talking about "truth" seems kind of weird anyway.
And I have good reasons to go personal. It's always the same people who lag/use glitches/use macros/get transparent ui with market trades/etc. You can call it a coincidence, I call it people who aren't legit. Always trying to download some external help or to abuse bugs... It's just not the kind of people you want in your lobby.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:By the way, I don't have issues playing without glitches, I don't use alt d, fast shooting, and I use building rotator because the EP added it to the game, so I don't know where that comes from :P
Still, I don't use these because there's an agreement amoung players not to use it, and I know that my opponents won't use it, but I argue against the ESOC decisions to ban building rotator or fast shooting from the game (which is paradoxical since they added the building rotator).

You might not use glitches (though I'm sure you did use alt d a lot in the past, and you said before on these forums that you use the explorer crackshot glitch), but you still advocate their use, which is just as bad.
Build rotator got nothing to do with this discussion, it's irrelevant compared to alt d or crackshot glitch.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I can be right, I can be wrong, there's no objectivity, just opinions but what's funny is that instead of saying « we decided after discussions to ban these abuses from the game» you make it look like as if there was only one reasonable opinion, your, and you call the others «dumb» or «cheesy».

Of course there is objectivity sometimes. Or are you gonna tell me that banning moesbar hacks is subjective, for example?
The crackshot bug is objectively game breaking. As explained tons of times, it conflicts with the explorer ROF. The ROF is a stat, the explo's ROF is supposed to be 3, and not less. This is like using a bug to get 100 attack instead of 15, for example. No matter how much apm it takes, it is not acceptable.
And same goes for alt d, as said hundreds of times: there is a reason why you're supposed to either pay 100g or wait till explo has 100 hp + you have a unit nearby. It's just the way the explorer was designed. Alt d just objectively kills the way the explorer is supposed to work. No one cares if your opponent gets extra xp in the process. It just destroys a game mechanic.
Now please, tell me how that was not objective. It's not a matter of opinions here.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:That's the strategy dictators use against their opponents actually, they impose their ideas, and call the people who disagree terrorists to quiet them.

No one is imposing anything lol. You're can stop posting on ESOC if you're not happy. You can even use these glitches on RE. And people can think what they want about you.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Dyddy, Tit, kynesie and me, even if you don't like us, are people who also play the game, so I don't know what's your point.
Finally, I'm indeed trying to be controversial because I want to show that there's a lack of objectivity in these decisions (though it's not going to change anything). Still, I think that I have the right to have an opinion on the matter without getting considered as a dumbass, a cheater, or even worse: a cheesy guy.

You play the game, and also you play around the game.
Again, I don't see what's subjective about the decisions. I could understand if you said that about the rotator mod, since they added it into EP. But regarding alt d and crackshot glitch, just no.
And again, you have the right to have whatever opinion, and people have the right to consider you what they want. By being controversial, you should expect some people to dislike you anyway, since it's the point of being controversial.

1) Well the truth I'm talking of is that there is no objectivity regarding bug abusing. The community decided to allow some, and banned some others.
It wasn't random, as you said there are arguments against fast shooting, but there are also arguments for it, thus it's all a matter of opinion and there's no objectivity.

2) Of course moesbar is objectively cheating, but what about creeping? What about cover mode as China? What about aging to the 4th age with the Toshogu shrine as japan?
All these are bugs but it's no big deal.
As you said in one of your previous posts, it's not banned because it is a bug, but because it is considered as a bad bug, which is highly subjective.

3) The explorer's ROF is supposed to be 3, and the chinese monk rr is supposed to be 20% not 70, so what?
Speed is a stat too you know.
And by using the speed bug (which is a bug I almost never use by the way), you make the unit faster than how it's supposed to be.
Isn't that cheating too?

4) Also you could consider that being close to a treasure with your explorer makes him stronger which is not dumb.
In aoe2, if you're on top of a cliff, your units are better, in sc 2 opponent's units can't even attack. It makes the map more interesting.
United States of America godzillaking
Skirmisher
Donator 03
Posts: 135
Joined: Jun 6, 2015

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by godzillaking »

I am a bit more interested in the programming. Why would starting the crackshot and canceling it reset the ROF timer?
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Garja »

Chinese monk is not a bug wtf you talking about? If anything it's the speed which bugs but it's not that big of a deal. And the only reason that's not banned is because sometimes it can happen unintentionally.
Image Image Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:Chinese monk is not a bug wtf you talking about? If anything it's the speed which bugs but it's not that big of a deal. And the only reason that's not banned is because sometimes it can happen unintentionally.

I mean the cover mode abuse.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by deleted_user0 »

the speed is kinda a big deal. the thing is just that once monk loses a lot of hp and dies to be revived, he's never really a threat anymore because there's no such thing as the warpit abuse to make him come back full hp with speed and with cover mode. and yes it can happen unintentionally.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Kaiserklein »

@Diarouga

1) It's not "arguments". It's facts. It's a fact that you're supposed to either pay for your explo or rescue it when it has 100 hp. And alt d destroys this mechanic, therefore it should be banned. Same thing with explo crackshot and the ROF. Your "argument" is that these 2 glitches also have drawbacks, which is completely irrelevant.

2) Cover bug after explo died is a big deal. If esoc could fix it, they would. The problem is that you can't make it forbidden, because if the chinese explo dies while tanking in cover mode, the glitch will happen, even if it wasn't intentional. So we would need to remove completely the cover mode (I'd do that if it was just up to me) like they did with azzy wc, which is something people don't want.
I don't get your point about the Toshogu shrine. I guess you mean the shogunate? Well, if it's written 600 xp but actually grants 1600, it's obviously a bug and it should be fixed. And that's the case.
Creeping is a bug? Again, why would treasure guardians reset their hp, if not to nerf creeping? If they weren't aware people can hit and run and go out of the treasure radius, devs wouldn't have made the guardians reset their hp.

3) Like I explained in 2), if they could make the cover mode bug forbidden, I'm sure they would. But it's impossible because anyone having his explo dying in cover mode would be breaking the rules...
What "speed bug" are you talking about?

4) "You could consider"... But dude, that's not how it works. You can't just invent rules and mechanics like that. Treasures aren't supposed to make your explo stronger, period. What you say comes out of nowhere.
Plus yeah, it's very dumb.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:the speed is kinda a big deal. the thing is just that once monk loses a lot of hp and dies to be revived, he's never really a threat anymore because there's no such thing as the warpit abuse to make him come back full hp with speed and with cover mode. and yes it can happen unintentionally.

Yea the monk isn't really an issue. The pull trick is a bigger issue than fast shooting though.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Garja »

umeu wrote:the speed is kinda a big deal. the thing is just that once monk loses a lot of hp and dies to be revived, he's never really a threat anymore because there's no such thing as the warpit abuse to make him come back full hp with speed and with cover mode. and yes it can happen unintentionally.

Yes exactly, and chinese monk doesn't have the speed up card so even at full speed in cover mode isn't any more annoying than cover mode with half speed.

Pull trick is a bit retarded but it is totally build in the game and intentionally put there for formation purposes. If anything blame the formation mechanic which sucks overall.
Image Image Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Cover mode is also supposed to halve the attack, and that's not the case with the bug. So the azzy explo could still deal full damage (including the special attack).
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kaiserklein wrote:@Diarouga

1) It's not "arguments". It's facts. It's a fact that you're supposed to either pay for your explo or rescue it when it has 100 hp. And alt d destroys this mechanic, therefore it should be banned. Same thing with explo crackshot and the ROF. Your "argument" is that these 2 glitches also have drawbacks, which is completely irrelevant.

2) Cover bug after explo died is a big deal. If esoc could fix it, they would. The problem is that you can't make it forbidden, because if the chinese explo dies while tanking in cover mode, the glitch will happen, even if it wasn't intentional. So we would need to remove completely the cover mode (I'd do that if it was just up to me) like they did with azzy wc, which is something people don't want.
I don't get your point about the Toshogu shrine. I guess you mean the shogunate? Well, if it's written 600 xp but actually grants 1600, it's obviously a bug and it should be fixed. And that's the case.
Creeping is a bug? Again, why would treasure guardians reset their hp, if not to nerf creeping? If they weren't aware people can hit and run and go out of the treasure radius, devs wouldn't have made the guardians reset their hp.

3) Like I explained in 2), if they could make the cover mode bug forbidden, I'm sure they would. But it's impossible because anyone having his explo dying in cover mode would be breaking the rules...
What "speed bug" are you talking about?

4) "You could consider"... But dude, that's not how it works. You can't just invent rules and mechanics like that. Treasures aren't supposed to make your explo stronger, period. What you say comes out of nowhere.
Plus yeah, it's very dumb.

1) Well then it's a fact that a unit shouldn't be faster than its speed. My point is that there are some abuses you allow (pull trick and creeping), while you ban some, thus there's no fact.
Either ban all the abuses, allow all the abuses, or admit that there's no truth about what should be allowed and what should not.
2) Yes I meant Shogunate not Toshogu, my bad.
My point is that if people use it on the RE, they're not going to be flamed for cheating while they exploit a bug.
You'll say that they have no choice since then we would have to ban the wonder on the RE, but it's the same as the azzy cover mode which was removed.

Devs knew that people could go out of the guardian range to escape, but they didn't want people to shoot at guardians without taking damages.

3) By «speed bug» I mean what you call the pull trick but I guess «speed bug» or «speed abuse» is more accurate.

4) My point since the beginning of this thread is that you decided to allow some abuses ( creeping and «speed abuse») because you think they are nice mechanics.
So yes, «you could consider» is definitely how it works, you do invent rules and mechanics like that.

Units aren't supposed to get more speed than what's written in their stats, and treasure guardians are supposed to attack you if you attack them.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:
umeu wrote:the speed is kinda a big deal. the thing is just that once monk loses a lot of hp and dies to be revived, he's never really a threat anymore because there's no such thing as the warpit abuse to make him come back full hp with speed and with cover mode. and yes it can happen unintentionally.

Yes exactly, and chinese monk doesn't have the speed up card so even at full speed in cover mode isn't any more annoying than cover mode with half speed.

Pull trick is a bit retarded but it is totally build in the game and intentionally put there for formation purposes. If anything blame the formation mechanic which sucks overall.


Well, it is written that a skirm has 4 speed, not 6 but apparently it's fine.
So why can't an explorer have 1.5 ROF when it should have 3?
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by zoom »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Garja is known to have some issues with objectivity.

There's not really a «consensus» by the way. Mankle, kaiser, Mitoe, Umeu and you tend to call debatable glitchs cheats, while some other guys, tit, kynesie, dyddy, me and some jap guys find it acceptable.

I totally understand the point about alt d and fast shooting, it can be an issue causing imbalances sometimes, but less than nootka laming or some other intended game features.
However, I simply don't get why building rotator is considered as cheating , since to me, it looks like it's objectively a good thing for the game.

What I'm trying to say, is that there is no objectivity in that process. You can surely argue for the decisions that have been made, but they were made by 5 people agreeing, and one can also argue against these decisions.
Building Rotator should be allowed. Whether using a bug is cheating depends entirely on whether it is giving you an advantage.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by deleted_user0 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:
umeu wrote:the speed is kinda a big deal. the thing is just that once monk loses a lot of hp and dies to be revived, he's never really a threat anymore because there's no such thing as the warpit abuse to make him come back full hp with speed and with cover mode. and yes it can happen unintentionally.

Yes exactly, and chinese monk doesn't have the speed up card so even at full speed in cover mode isn't any more annoying than cover mode with half speed.

Pull trick is a bit retarded but it is totally build in the game and intentionally put there for formation purposes. If anything blame the formation mechanic which sucks overall.


Well, it is written that a skirm has 4 speed, not 6 but apparently it's fine.
So why can't an explorer have 1.5 ROF when it should have 3?


the max speed is actually in the code. it's part of a game mechanic. the "it's not a bug, it's a game feature" is actually the most applicable here. That said, if it was fixable, I wouldn't be against fixing it.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Well, it is written that a skirm has 4 speed, not 6 but apparently it's fine.
So why can't an explorer have 1.5 ROF when it should have 3?


the max speed is actually in the code. it's part of a game mechanic. the "it's not a bug, it's a game feature" is actually the most applicable here. That said, if it was fixable, I wouldn't be against fixing it.

Still, it changes a unit's stats, just like the fast shooting abuse, even if it might not be a bug.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Garja »

No, they are not comparable at all. If you can't see why stop replying.
Image Image Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:No, they are not comparable at all. If you can't see why stop replying.

Well it changes a unit's stats in a specific situation, so they are definitely comparable, even if one is a glitch while the other is an abuse of an intented feature.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Garja »

It doesn't change the unit stat. The unit stat is max speed and it doesn't change. And exactly because they're two different things they are not comparable. Make peace with logic.
Image Image Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by Kaiserklein »

1) Units are meant to be able to sprint faster than their speed... There's a "max speed" stat in the game files for each unit. It's clearly defined and it's how it's supposed to work. There's facts, just get them straight. And yeah, you can abuse that mechanic. Because it's a mechanic, not a bug.
Again, since creeping is a mechanic and not a bug, it's fine as well.
Abusing bugs is cheating. Abusing game mechanics isn't: it's like abusing instant cuir spam, for example.

2) Well yeah, we'd have to ban the wonder for age 4, which is not an option. Luckily, esoc devs were able to simply change the value to 600 xp. Sadly, they can't fix the cover mode bug, which is why it was removed for azzy wc instead. I don't really see your point here.
And well, there's no need to reset the hp. You could just shoot once and escape, without resetting the guardian's hp. Resetting hp is needed because otherwise creeping would be too easy, which shows that they knew about it. Same thing: after you shot a guardian from outside of the treasure radius, it will stay idle for a while, then get its hp back. Why did they code that? They must have known you can creep around the treasure. Also, if it was a bug, I'd like to know how on earth the testers wouldn't spot it instantly. It's pretty obvious, unlike alt d or the crackshot glitch.

3) It's not a bug.

4) I'm repeating myself a lot here, but whatever. Pull trick and creeping aren't bugs. Alt d, cover mode, crackshot thing, are bugs. Abusing bugs is called an exploit, and that's cheat. Abusing mechanics is just being smart.
Units are supposed to be able to sprint to up to 50% (I think) of their speed. Treasure guardians are apparently supposed to behave in that way too, because as I explained in 2), it's impossible that creeping is a bug.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Is creeping treasures cheating?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:It doesn't change the unit stat. The unit stat is max speed and it doesn't change. And exactly because they're two different things they are not comparable. Make peace with logic.

Same, fast shooting doesn't change the explorer ROF, it makes him shoot faster :P

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV