back herding

[cedarfarms]

What is the science behind back herding? Is it just that when you herd a hunt too far away from its original spawn that it is going to begin to run back to its spawn point or is there more to it, i watched a few games of players who said please dont back herd and they shoot the herd one more time and then kill every animal in the hunt so they wnt begin to run back, so how do you know when youve taken it far enough?

[macacoalbino]

I don't think that being far away makes it backherd more probable. As far as I know it's random. So it seems like it happens more often in this case because you have to shoot it more times until the hunts get under your TC.

[Jaeger]

There's definately a set boundary after which it will always backherd.

[SoldieR]

If you play enough, you can feel when it is going to back herd. I never end up killing a lot before back herd because I probably need it closer to be useful/safe so I take the chance that it won't go back, tho I know it will

[91]

Someone should make a UI that shows the restricted area a hunt will walk on without backherding.. Like highlighting all animals of the herd, and the area they belong to, either when you click on the animal or when you click on the animal and press alt key or something..

Challenge accepted anyone? :p

But seriously, is there anyone who knows a more specific rule for backherding? a set distance for it to happen? Is it possible to find in the code perhaps?I remember you could set several areas when placing hunts, and also the area in which they can spawn. Maybe it can have something to do with how big this spawning area is as well? I feel like experimenting on this

[[Armag] diarouga]

Back herding is so stupid. Why did they make that?

[_DB_]

H2O says that if you shoot from farthest range possible to the last animal in the herd, then there is least chance to get a backherd.

Backherd generally happens after you start herding after killing the 2nd animal.

I mean, basically you kill one animal to start herding. But when it's more far, you kill the 2nd one. When you kill that animal, there is more chances to have backherding. That's why backherding doesn't happen in age 1. Also, it's issue with bisons too much. I almost never had a backherd on Garja's maps (except high plains). It's the bug itself, nobody can fix it.

[fei123456]

one of the many many stupid designs of the game.

[rangerxx]

Im quite sure its the distance you herd. Once you herd the animals too far away from there original position they will backherd. Of corse this never happense in age 1 because in that short amount of time you are not able to herd that far yet. Also it apears more with bisons for example on great plains cause the herds are often far away and the bisons run farther than for example deers when you hunt them so its more likely to herd bisons as far to cross that line where they start to backherd.

[Mimsy for President]

it can't be disabled I suppose

[momuuu]

The real question is, has anyone found the gamefiles that dictate these rules yet? Maybe we can learn more from it that way.

Anyhow, H2O said that the backherding is determined by the position of the vill. If the villager is shooting the last animal of the herd from the greatest distance possible, the chance that it is inside this circle is the highest.

I'd like to add that hunts have walking tendencies. Sometimes hunts will walk towards your TC themselves, sometimes they'll walk away really fast. I think that also affects the supposed center of their circle.

[Good ol Ivan]

Back herding is so stupid. Why did they make that?

So you wouldn''t steal all the herds in the map too easily.
Makes sense to me, but it''s quite annoying when it happens at random.

[Durokan]

Yeah what neuron said, the dont want you taking your opponents hunts into your base/really far away from their base

[lemmings121]

worse then the back heard: the back-back heard.

when you have a forward vill for some reason, and decide to heard your enemy's hunt away from him.... instead it backheards and runs to his tc.

fuck it.

[momuuu]

worse then the back heard: the back-back heard.

when you have a forward vill for some reason, and decide to heard your enemy''s hunt away from him.... instead it backheards and runs to his tc.

fuck it.

That''s just karma ')

[Garja]

The real question is, has anyone found the gamefiles that dictate these rules yet? Maybe we can learn more from it that way.

Code: Select all

<'Unit id="291" name="Bison">'
   <'DBID>'12<'/DBID>'
   <'DisplayNameID>'22832<'/DisplayNameID>'
   <'ObstructionRadiusX>'0.7900<'/ObstructionRadiusX>'
   <'ObstructionRadiusZ>'0.7900<'/ObstructionRadiusZ>'
   <'IdleTimeout>'5.0000<'/IdleTimeout>'
   <'MaxVelocity>'2.0000<'/MaxVelocity>'
   <'MaxRunVelocity>'4.0000<'/MaxRunVelocity>'
   <'MovementType>'land<'/MovementType>'
   <'TurnRate>'18.0000<'/TurnRate>'
   <'WanderDistance>'4<'/WanderDistance>'
   <'AnimFile>'unitsanimalsisonison.xml<'/AnimFile>'
   <'ImpactType>'Animal<'/ImpactType>'
   <'Icon>'unitsanimalsisonison_icon_64<'/Icon>'
   <'PortraitIcon>'unitsanimalsisonison_icon_portrait<'/PortraitIcon>'
   <'RolloverTextID>'22844<'/RolloverTextID>'
   <'ShortRolloverTextID>'25612<'/ShortRolloverTextID>'
   <'InitialHitpoints>'30.0000<'/InitialHitpoints>'
   <'MaxHitpoints>'30.0000<'/MaxHitpoints>'
   <'LOS>'18.0000<'/LOS>'
   <'UnitAIType>'Passive<'/UnitAIType>'
   <'Bounty>'0.0000<'/Bounty>'
   <'InitialResource resourcetype="Food">'500.0000<'/InitialResource>'
   <'ResourceDecay>'0.7500<'/ResourceDecay>'
   <'ResourceSubType>'meat<'/ResourceSubType>'
   <'MinimapColor red="0.5000" blue="0.2500" green="0.2000"/>'
   <'GathererLimit>'8<'/GathererLimit>'
   <'UnitType>'LogicalTypeMinimapFilterEconomic<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'LogicalTypeHealed<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'LogicalTypeHandUnitsAutoAttack<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'LogicalTypeGarrisonInShips<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'LogicalTypeVillagersAttack<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'Food<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'NatureClass<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'AnimalPrey<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'Huntable<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'HuntedResource<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'Resource<'/UnitType>'
   <'UnitType>'Unit<'/UnitType>'
   <'Flag>'CollidesWithProjectiles<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'ConstrainOrientation<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'CorpseDecays<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'DieAtZeroResources<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'DoNotDieAtZeroHitpoints<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'DoNotValidateResourceInventory<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'DontRotateObstruction<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'NonAutoFormedUnit<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'ObscuredByUnits<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'OrientUnitWithGround<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'RMCanRotate<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'Wanders<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'ForceToGaia<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'VisibleUnderFogOnlyAfterSeen<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'CivSpecificText<'/Flag>'
   <'Flag>'Tracked<'/Flag>'
   <'Tactics>'hunt.tactics<'/Tactics>'
   <'ProtoAction>'
      <'Name>'ShrineGather<'/Name>'
      <'Rate type="AbstractShrine">'0.080000<'/Rate>'
   <'/ProtoAction>'
<'/Unit>'

Not sure which of those lines sets the walking range.
Probably the backherding mechanic is an attribute of the herd rather than the single unit. And because of that it is probably related to the size of the map.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Taunt 34

[macacoalbino]

I feel like the worst part of backherding is that those fucking hunts walk as if you shot them 2 times in the wrong way. Then when you try to correct that, the 2nd shot ALWAYS makes them go away again. So frustrating

[oO_Chief_Oo]

Too bad I have no clue.
Tho last month I resigned twice after a streak of five backherds in a row on gp...

[lemmings121]

Too bad I have no clue.
Tho last month I resigned twice after a streak of five backherds in a row on gp...

thats like winning the lotery... but backwards.

[benj89]

It wouldn't be a bad thing if map were fixed in the first place! That's a smart one they thought abt that, but it makes more sense to me to make sure that on each map everyone has a starting hunt + another good one before thinking abt those stuff.
It's hilarious to back herd someone's herd when you got russ etc

[iNcog]

at very least the thing with back herding is that you know that once you've been back herded, it won't back-herd again next shot

[Mr_Bramboy]

at very least the thing with back herding is that you know that once you''ve been back herded, it won''t back-herd again next shot

Go tell my bisons

[yemshi]

at very least the thing with back herding is that you know that once you''ve been back herded, it won''t back-herd again next shot

Lol