back herding

[WickedCossack]

at very least the thing with back herding is that you know that once you''ve been back herded, it won''t back-herd again next shot

Actually that''s not even true. I''ve had dual back hunts on numerous occasions.

Never trust a bison.

[yemshi]

at very least the thing with back herding is that you know that once youve been back herded, it wont back-herd again next shot

Actually thats not even true. Ive had dual back hunts on numerous occasions.

Never trust a bison.

+1

[91]

The real question is, has anyone found the gamefiles that dictate these rules yet? Maybe we can learn more from it that way.

Code: Select all

<'Unit id="291" name="Bison">'
   "data"
<'/Unit>'

Not sure which of those lines sets the walking range.
Probably the backherding mechanic is an attribute of the herd rather than the single unit. And because of that it is probably related to the size of the map.

<'Tactics>'hunt.tactics<'/Tactics>'
Okayyy... maybe change the tactics :p
Anyway it seems this is too deeply buried in the code. I did some tests, map size or size/locations of placement areas dont seem to matter at all.

It doesnt seem to have anything to do with the villager position or the shot animal position, but rather the whole herds position, as you say. Which means that there are no tricks except for knowing if the center of the heard is enough distance from the spawning point or not.

However, I did find that the distance is ALWAYS around 6 wall segments (one segment = same width as a gate) long from where the herd spawned (remember, they wander too, so where you find it might not be where it actually spawned)

[91]

@garja

No, it''s not in the unit tags. The herding behaviour is hardcoded, it can be applied to any unit. Such as:



Yeah, settler wagons can backerd too, canons too!

But, how did you do so you can hunt settler wagons? Wouldn''t you have to change the tags or something on the units? I''m by no means a game coder, but it seems reasonable that the behaviour + possibility to be herded is in one of those flags/unittypes?

[lordraphael]

if you know exactly that your herd is gonna backherd the next time u are going to shoot it u can avoid backherd by shooting the hunt away from your tc which results in the hunt doing the opposit and coming closer to your tc not sure why it hasnt been mentioned alreadyits quite a nice trick and can save u games

[91]

if you know exactly that your herd is gonna backherd the next time u are going to shoot it u can avoid backherd by shooting the hunt away from your tc which results in the hunt doing the opposit and coming closer to your tc not sure why it hasnt been mentioned alreadyits quite a nice trick and can save u games

Unfortunately it doesn''t really work (at least I didnt manage to recreate it)

It sort of works if you shoot at it sideways though (it will backherd, but it won''t really change distance from the spawning point, since it moved sideways only).


But if you shoot the herd towards their spawning point when they''re about to backherd, they will still run towards the spawning point.

[91]

You can make any moving units act as a herd in a random map, by just spawning a group of objects and defining it as a herd. So the herd/herding behaviour mechanics are actually separate from the units tags/characteristics. Anything that moves in AOE3 can probably be made herdable. I did this with a herd of explorers, a herd of canons, a herd of petards, a herd of priests. This was part of my thourough attempt at eliminating backherding from AOE3 which I did once, trying every possible method.

There is a method which sort of works, but it involves having a player/AI control the herds movements on the map. So once they stray too far from a spot, a trigger could send them back to their spawn spot or back to their circle.

So in the end, backherding really comes down to bad hunt placements combined with the fact that hunts wander around right?

It still needs to be there so that you cant move hunts over the whole map, so I''d say the problem is the hunt placements if anything.

[lemmings121]

tbh I dont remember having backheard issues in any garja map, except highplains... at least not a lot, like in GP.

maybe just dont use bisons in future maps?

cant you change the amount of food in other animal and just substitute de bisons in highplains?

[macacoalbino]

Yeah, if the map is balanced and the distribution of hunts is equally good (or bad) for both players, backherding won''t play much of a role in the outcome of a game. It''s the worst when one player is mapscrewed, he goes the extra mile to get his hunts from far outside his base, then he gets punished by backherding for basically having a skill (herding your hunts in time).

+1
This description reminds me of games in Siberia in Spring champ.

[Garja]

the reason why ppl usually don't get any backherd on the custom maps is because all the starting hunts are close enough to be brought on top of the tc. On all other official maps the 2nd hunt is often out of the possible range of herdability, so after 3-4 shoots it reaches the limit and goes back.

[_venox_]

Try to wall in your herds if you think they might walk back. Worth the 30 wood.

[yemshi]

You'd need a cage

[_venox_]

Nicolas?

[yemshi]

2

[_venox_]

Nicolas Cage? Do you know who that is?

[yemshi]

My dentist

[momuuu]

But are there any files that determine the herd behaviour then? And would those be moddable?