How to balance the civs
How to balance the civs
First of all, my post is not bullshit in any way. Second of all, I never said extremely bad' I said exceptionally bad ?? which is entirely true, as they are worse than every other Musketeer unit in the game's stats.
Ashigaru: ~1.417 hitpoints per cost' 0.2 damage per cost.
Musketeer: 1.5 hitpoints per cost' 0.23 damage per cost.
Ashigaru: ~1.417 hitpoints per cost' 0.2 damage per cost.
Musketeer: 1.5 hitpoints per cost' 0.23 damage per cost.
How to balance the civs
that's very easy.just everyone use otto and iro.that's enough
-
- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
How to balance the civs
zoom wrote:First of all, my post is not bullshit in any way. Second of all, I never said extremely bad' I said exceptionally bad ?? which is entirely true, as they are worse than every other Musketeer unit in the game''s stats.
Ashigaru: ~1.417 hitpoints per cost' 0.2 damage per cost.
Musketeer: 1.5 hitpoints per cost' 0.23 damage per cost.
Oh god... Their stats are simply not bad, not in the extreme or in the exception. For their cost, jans and tomas do less damage, so you are just wrong.
And here is the kicker, if a ashi had 180 hp hed still die in the same ampunt of shots ro musketeers and tc fire. Probably the same vs other units, if i cod be bothered to check. Ashi had 26 damage before but were nerfed cuz its too good.
How to balance the civs
I guess it's the upgradeability that makes ashigaru so strong: Two home city upgrades, the daimyos, the golden wonder and it's function as an arsenal and the Japanese consulate.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
How to balance the civs
And the 4.5 speed of course. Ashi raids are actually a thing so it surely matters.
Plus more expensive units are more efficient.
Plus more expensive units are more efficient.
How to balance the civs
Expensive units don't lose damage output as fast as cheap units, because you have to do more damage until one unit dies and the damage output decreases.
Cheap units on the other hand have more overkill because with their low hitpoints and their pure mass it is hard to not waste many shots.
Also expensive units cause more overkill because their damage output is bigger.
Expensive units have a better surface area because if the first two lines of a group of ashigaru can shoot then more "resources" participate in battle to let's say the first two lines of a group of regular musketeers.
+ damage output decreases slower
+ more surface area because of "denser resources"
- easy to waste shots
- compared to cheap units they aren't overkilled by much
I wouldn't say expensive units are more efficient though, but being able to upgrade one unit (= increasing their "worth" in resources = their cost efficiency ratio) makes expensive units better than cheap units.
Cheap units on the other hand have more overkill because with their low hitpoints and their pure mass it is hard to not waste many shots.
Also expensive units cause more overkill because their damage output is bigger.
Expensive units have a better surface area because if the first two lines of a group of ashigaru can shoot then more "resources" participate in battle to let's say the first two lines of a group of regular musketeers.
+ damage output decreases slower
+ more surface area because of "denser resources"
- easy to waste shots
- compared to cheap units they aren't overkilled by much
I wouldn't say expensive units are more efficient though, but being able to upgrade one unit (= increasing their "worth" in resources = their cost efficiency ratio) makes expensive units better than cheap units.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
How to balance the civs
neuron wrote:The thing is ashis are so fast that the other stats don''t matter. They can just basically fire a volley, run, come back, fire another volley. Imagine having 2-3 groups of ashis randomly running and shooting around your eco, and you trying to get them with regular infantry. Then "how bad their stats are" doesn''t matter, if they can lame their speed to shizzle. Not to mention you can spam these bad boys without even hunting, you just sit in your base, mine and get food from shrines/orchards and just spam these speedy musketeers which can''t be caught by their counters.
Add walls to this factory base and that''s Japan for you.
totally agree with you here because you can also consider that 3age (gold pavilion) can benefit ashi and other units with the bonus speed. That''s pretty good. Anyway if you consider card + daymio + jap consulate the attack of ashi is really high and this means they can really fight also against age2 anti infantry without suffer so much. Jap needs really to be nerfed and is insane if anyone consider than during wcg2008 they were better than now
How to balance the civs
I think somebody never played Japan or at least never played against somebody who knows what they're doing as Japan.
They gather food slower than other nations because they gather berries.
They have to send cherry orchards and are reliant on those. If they pop and the enemy is in your base you just lost your 2 orchards.
They have to send heavenly kami and invest quite some time into their boom and are thus weak in the early game.
They are just as reliant on animals as the other nation, if there are little animals and your opponent needs hunts then you have nowhere to build shrines that gather something.
They have only 4 villagers and 600 crate shipments in colonial.
Walls in general are lame, it just happens that they help out a defensive playstyle like japans in the beginning the most.
And if you ever lose your heroes you can't really rebuild your destroyed shrines, so you have a reliance on those.
I know I'm about the only one on this, but flaming arrows are inferior to culverines and against a well played culverine/falconet/mass composition you have little chances as Japan.
They gather food slower than other nations because they gather berries.
They have to send cherry orchards and are reliant on those. If they pop and the enemy is in your base you just lost your 2 orchards.
They have to send heavenly kami and invest quite some time into their boom and are thus weak in the early game.
They are just as reliant on animals as the other nation, if there are little animals and your opponent needs hunts then you have nowhere to build shrines that gather something.
They have only 4 villagers and 600 crate shipments in colonial.
Walls in general are lame, it just happens that they help out a defensive playstyle like japans in the beginning the most.
And if you ever lose your heroes you can't really rebuild your destroyed shrines, so you have a reliance on those.
I know I'm about the only one on this, but flaming arrows are inferior to culverines and against a well played culverine/falconet/mass composition you have little chances as Japan.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
How to balance the civs
If we're going to make a FP, can we add new units. kappa
Expansion pack time boyz
E: I said it offhand, but really I think it could be cool. It's also completely feasible.
the game is ours to mod, we can played rated games on it, we're allowed to host tournaments for it.
...
Expansion pack time boyz
E: I said it offhand, but really I think it could be cool. It's also completely feasible.
the game is ours to mod, we can played rated games on it, we're allowed to host tournaments for it.
...
How to balance the civs
Neuron in your first post you just said what makes Japan strong and completely forgot the disadvantages I then added to balance out the picture people have from Japan.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
-
- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
How to balance the civs
incog wrote:If we''re going to make a FP, can we add new units. kappa
Expansion pack time boyz
E: I said it offhand, but really I think it could be cool. It''s also completely feasible.
the game is ours to mod, we can played rated games on it, we''re allowed to host tournaments for it.
...
Is napoleonic empires competitively balanced? Would actually be fun to host a smackdown on it for once, and a fp smackdown
- thebritish
- Jaeger
- Posts: 3787
- Joined: Jul 18, 2015
How to balance the civs
umeu wrote:incog wrote:If were going to make a FP, can we add new units. kappa
Expansion pack time boyz
E: I said it offhand, but really I think it could be cool. Its also completely feasible.
the game is ours to mod, we can played rated games on it, were allowed to host tournaments for it.
...
Is napoleonic empires competitively balanced? Would actually be fun to host a smackdown on it for once, and a fp smackdown
+1
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
How to balance the civs
umeu wrote:incog wrote:If were going to make a FP, can we add new units. kappa
Expansion pack time boyz
E: I said it offhand, but really I think it could be cool. Its also completely feasible.
the game is ours to mod, we can played rated games on it, were allowed to host tournaments for it.
...
Is napoleonic empires competitively balanced? Would actually be fun to host a smackdown on it for once, and a fp smackdown
they went too far though for it to be truly viable.
im just talking more units or some shit. idk
I would just the musketeer for starters. and give civilizations more ways to invest into economy somehow
well
only a dream
- Good ol Ivan
- Howdah
- Posts: 1345
- Joined: Mar 31, 2015
- ESO: ivanelterrible
How to balance the civs
You mean the Napoleonic Era mod?umeu wrote:incog wrote:If were going to make a FP, can we add new units. kappa
Expansion pack time boyz
E: I said it offhand, but really I think it could be cool. Its also completely feasible.
the game is ours to mod, we can played rated games on it, were allowed to host tournaments for it.
...
Is napoleonic empires competitively balanced? Would actually be fun to host a smackdown on it for once, and a fp smackdown
Well NE is pretty fun and Id support and join such a tourney.
But seriously despite the developers best effort NE is really fucking unbalanced. No matter what you cant have balance with over 20 vastly different civs.
How to balance the civs
First patch should be about balancing bugs and resource distribution, second about some overpowered and underpowered units and then we can look at different ways to invest into economy or making the chinese colonial more viable.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
-
- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
How to balance the civs
No. First priority should be making grens viable. I suggest giving them a bonus vs heavy infantry but lower base dmg and make them available in the barracks. Would add diversity to alot of mus! We could see gren musk vs musk lb, gren musk huss vs dop uhlan bow. Gren cav vs yumi ashi... Oh god endless possibilities
How to balance the civs
First choose the most unbalanced civ. You should modify only one civ at one time to avoid "overpatching". Gather an axpert aoe3 party with the top players to get suggestions how to balance a civ. Test the choosen civ with the most mediocre civ (ofc with expert players + expert obs). Test until both player feels the matchup balanced.
I think the question is who should be in the expert party and who has got computer skill to make it real. And ofc who has got time to do it.
I think the question is who should be in the expert party and who has got computer skill to make it real. And ofc who has got time to do it.
How to balance the civs
umeu wrote:No. First priority should be making grens viable. I suggest giving them a bonus vs heavy infantry but lower base dmg and make them available in the barracks. Would add diversity to alot of mus! We could see gren musk vs musk lb, gren musk huss vs dop uhlan bow. Gren cav vs yumi ashi... Oh god endless possibilities
abus 2.0 ?
How to balance the civs
Haha, if you have ever "played against somebody who knows what they''re doing as Japan", you will understand that this civ is far from balanced. You cant push into their walls with yumis behind without artillery or lond-range units like longbows, abus, skirms which are rare in colonial, because you if you continue sieging, you will trade 10 units for a 5 wood wall just to face their minutemen and more units. If you dont siege, you give them time to mass their crazy units.venox wrote:I think somebody never played Japan or at least never played against somebody who knows what they''re doing as Japan.
They gather food slower than other nations because they gather berries.
They have to send cherry orchards and are reliant on those. If they pop and the enemy is in your base you just lost your 2 orchards.
They have to send heavenly kami and invest quite some time into their boom and are thus weak in the early game.
They are just as reliant on animals as the other nation, if there are little animals and your opponent needs hunts then you have nowhere to build shrines that gather something.
They have only 4 villagers and 600 crate shipments in colonial.
Walls in general are lame, it just happens that they help out a defensive playstyle like japans in the beginning the most.
And if you ever lose your heroes you can''t really rebuild your destroyed shrines, so you have a reliance on those.
I know I''m about the only one on this, but flaming arrows are inferior to culverines and against a well played culverine/falconet/mass composition you have little chances as Japan.
Japanese shrine boom is similar to a fishing boom, but on land.
Shrine boom - 1 discovery age shipment, 200 wood for a consulate and 1531 wood for 25 villagers (considering 3 free boats and free toshogu shrine).
Fishing boom - 1 discovery age shipment, 600 wood for 3 docks and 1000 wood for 25 villagers.
Keep in mind that those "villagers" have 1200 hitpoints or so, can generate any resourse you like and cant be shut down for a while by 2-3 warships.
Japanese wonders are a whole other topic.
Golden pavillion grants you 6 yumi archers, free arsenal, advanced arsenal upgrades and a 10-15% (not sure) bonus to your units. A normal civ gets 6 skirmishers or so, while Japan gets same amount of units AND a 250 wood building AND an age 2 shipment AND a boost which is like an age 2 attack upgrade, which is 1650 more res than a normal age-up.
Shogunate grants you a free daymio, cheaper units AND exp for 2-3 shipments. Daymio is already a good age-up option, it is like an age 3 shipment. Cheaper units, only 5%, nice but not much. It is like half of the sioux age 3 shipment, which is like 500 res. Exp... It is like aging up with 8 flaming arrows or 32 yumi... A normal civ gets only 1000 res, Japan gets 1000 + 500 + 3200 = 4700 res. Industrial age pays for itself just with all this.
Blackstar_OP: "The only things that beat Japan are otto jan-abus, iro all-in and mirror".
This civ is so damn good, should definetly learn to play it.
How to balance the civs
I just pointed out their disadvantages. I never said that they aren't a strong civilisation.
Golden pavillon is just 6 yumi, arsenal and the 10% dmg increase right? What shipment does it grant you extra to that?
Golden pavillon is just 6 yumi, arsenal and the 10% dmg increase right? What shipment does it grant you extra to that?
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
How to balance the civs
Japan is not as good as most players think. People tend to repsect Japan too much so they ends up playing in their hands (typical example: japan walled so I can't rush anymore).
Japan is one of those civs that in a hypotetical patch should be barely touched or not touched at all.
Japan is one of those civs that in a hypotetical patch should be barely touched or not touched at all.
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
How to balance the civs
+1garja wrote:Japan is not as good as most players think. People tend to repsect Japan too much so they ends up playing in their hands (typical example: japan walled so I can''t rush anymore).
Japan is one of those civs that in a hypotetical patch should be barely touched or not touched at all.
How to balance the civs
Correct. Walls are the problem, not the civ itself. Japan is in fact quite balanced if they don't abuse walls, they are vulnerable to timings which in the lower ranks are rarely used and if used are executed poorly. This makes the civ seem stronger than it really is.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests