dicktator wrote:China is number 2 both in nats and out of nats, they beat Brits German and Spain and lose to only France same as out of nats. They just dont win as hard, due to the lack of embassies.
Thats not even debatable. China loses to all tier 1 civilizations in natives. You can try that for yourself or after 17th we can play any matchup you would like. Its not just embassy, its lack of train rate as well, combine that with wood dependency of china which means you need to rely on your teammates for map control or do it yourself which is just adding more work to already taxing civilization. Its like if all those things happen at a same time maybe china wins, its still a huge maybe.
im confused. based on your list, france is the only tier 1 civ.
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dicktator wrote:China is number 2 both in nats and out of nats, they beat Brits German and Spain and lose to only France same as out of nats. They just dont win as hard, due to the lack of embassies.
Thats not even debatable. China loses to all tier 1 civilizations in natives. You can try that for yourself or after 17th we can play any matchup you would like. Its not just embassy, its lack of train rate as well, combine that with wood dependency of china which means you need to rely on your teammates for map control or do it yourself which is just adding more work to already taxing civilization. Its like if all those things happen at a same time maybe china wins, its still a huge maybe.
dicktator wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:China still aint op though but whatever. They cant win with 120 vills. They have to drop to 75-80 vills. There cowboom is not as good as brits. Wood dependent civilization. Cant play nats, anti cav sucks.
China can easily drop to 70-80 vills because they boom ~2700 at 40. Theyre cowboom is still good although like you said not as good as Brits but not why theyre op, they are op because of their insane army combined with an above average eco. They can play nats, nats dont synergize with China very well but theyre still insanely strong with nats. Their anti cav is fine, 12 disciples, 30 rattans, their own cav (has to be forbidden army, steppes suck vs other cav), some pikes/keshiks, really the only cav that should be breaking through is cuirs. China is still insanely strong in nats because even without nats they still do okay against other civs using nats lol. China is kind of wood dependent but it doesnt really matter because they have two factories (as long as you dont do that shit vills on food/wood facs on coin boom youre good ), China vs any civ other than France should win their fight before wood becomes an issue.
-My ports lost to a no cow no team art Lukas China, and there wasnt a single thing that he did better than me that game.
-King_ownage2nd German required a 100k feed vs bager China.
-My Brits and my Spain lost to gichtenlord China.
-My ports required a 40k feed vs a no cow bager China.
I could link to these games on elo but cbf.
As you can see I have plenty of example games which show how strong China is. I should add that when King was German against bager China, King had nats while bager didnt, and when my Spain lost to gichtenlords China we were both using natives. If you can show me a single game consisting of two good players where China lost to a tier two civ in nats, I will consider your argument. Edit: And I would be happy to test this with you.
anonymous123 wrote:Thats not even debatable. China loses to all tier 1 civilizations in natives. You can try that for yourself or after 17th we can play any matchup you would like. Its not just embassy, its lack of train rate as well, combine that with wood dependency of china which means you need to rely on your teammates for map control or do it yourself which is just adding more work to already taxing civilization. Its like if all those things happen at a same time maybe china wins, its still a huge maybe.
im confused. based on your list, france is the only tier 1 civ.
I just rated in the list numberwise 1.2.3... I did not classify them as tier wise.
anonymous123 wrote:Thats not even debatable. China loses to all tier 1 civilizations in natives. You can try that for yourself or after 17th we can play any matchup you would like. Its not just embassy, its lack of train rate as well, combine that with wood dependency of china which means you need to rely on your teammates for map control or do it yourself which is just adding more work to already taxing civilization. Its like if all those things happen at a same time maybe china wins, its still a huge maybe.
dicktator wrote:China can easily drop to 70-80 vills because they boom ~2700 at 40. Theyre cowboom is still good although like you said not as good as Brits but not why theyre op, they are op because of their insane army combined with an above average eco. They can play nats, nats dont synergize with China very well but theyre still insanely strong with nats. Their anti cav is fine, 12 disciples, 30 rattans, their own cav (has to be forbidden army, steppes suck vs other cav), some pikes/keshiks, really the only cav that should be breaking through is cuirs. China is still insanely strong in nats because even without nats they still do okay against other civs using nats lol. China is kind of wood dependent but it doesnt really matter because they have two factories (as long as you dont do that shit vills on food/wood facs on coin boom youre good ), China vs any civ other than France should win their fight before wood becomes an issue.
-My ports lost to a no cow no team art Lukas China, and there wasnt a single thing that he did better than me that game.
-King_ownage2nd German required a 100k feed vs bager China.
-My Brits and my Spain lost to gichtenlord China.
-My ports required a 40k feed vs a no cow bager China.
I could link to these games on elo but cbf.
As you can see I have plenty of example games which show how strong China is. I should add that when King was German against bager China, King had nats while bager didnt, and when my Spain lost to gichtenlords China we were both using natives. If you can show me a single game consisting of two good players where China lost to a tier two civ in nats, I will consider your argument.
Alright I am done, because theres no point in discussing personal views. We both have different experiences in game and anyways you will more credibility at the moment because you are the best. But I stand by my list and we can play anyday after 17th and before 29th of this month. You (china) vs Germany, British, Spain any matchup you would like.