Switch from Vanilla to TAD?

[arkz]

Hi,

after owning Aoe3 for a long time I recently started playing a bit online (had maybe 50 online games a few years ago). Now I wonder wether or not it is worth switching to TAD. My main hope is that it will be easier to find games there. Is it?

OFc you also have more nations but right now that wouldn't really motivate me to get it since there are still vanilla-civs I'm totally unable to play on my current range of rank.

Thanks in advance for your help

[[Armag] diarouga]

There is more people on TAD if you also have TWC.
If you want to improve, buy TAD because maps and the meta are more balanced. Also, a fanpatch is coming soon on TAD.
Don't forget that the best players are on tad and you won t really find any good recs on nilla.

[Mr_Bramboy]

What diarouga said, and you will most definitely become a better player on TAD because of the improved and added hotkeys.

On nilla, you can't bind Q to both an uhlan and a hussar, but on TAD you can.

[arkz]

Thanks for your answers.

Well, ofc I'd buy one of those packages with both add-ons since just the TAD-add-on isn't any cheaper as far as I know. However, I still consider ~15? for such an old game to be quite expensive. (The standard-price on Steam is mental anyway.)

But for me it really is about finding games quicker. I'm aware that this is probably a bit of an competitive environment here but as far as I'm concerned I just want to play the game and ofc win as much as possible, however, without aspiring to reach a certain level or something like that.

Still, I guess I'll get the add-ons sooner or later then.

About the hotkeys: Yeah, that actually is a nice little thing that could be improved in the vanilla-version.

[purplesquid]

There are definitely more people on TAD. Plus the new civs are kinda cool. I would definitely recommend upgrading

[pounendo]

When I first moved to tad the first thing that i blew my mind was extra cards. That made me so happy.

[momuuu]

TAD has just some options that Nilla misses (hotkeys for unit stances, alt to show unit hitpoints, better maps, more civs, more active and organized community, soon a fan patch, better counter system). There's no reason to play nilla imo.

[arkz]

@purplesquid: That's good to hear and as I said my main concern right now.

Hm, seeing hitpoints and being able to change unit stance via hotkey sure seems like a good thing. Could you elaborate on your claim that TAD has a better counter system?

[zoom]

Heavy cavalry counters something else than Artillery and Settlers. Ranged infantry does not counter as much.

[momuuu]

In nilla, ranged infantry doesnt have the 0.75 multiplier against cav, so cav actually doesn't really beat ranged infantry. On TAD, that bonus is presence and it makes the game much more balanced imo. Cav beats ranged infantry like its supposed to there. Also, I think something is up with goons on nilla but I don't know what exactly.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yep, on tad when you bow/pike vs a musk/huss you're going 40bows/10pikes, while on tad you have to go 30bows/20 pikes.
Bow/pike actually even beat a musk/huss in mid game so you basically get the map control by bow rushing, and then you never loose it.

[Kaiserklein]

Hi,

after owning Aoe3 for a long time I recently started playing a bit online (had maybe 50 online games a few years ago). Now I wonder wether or not it is worth switching to TAD. My main hope is that it will be easier to find games there. Is it?

OFc you also have more nations but right now that wouldnt really motivate me to get it since there are still vanilla-civs Im totally unable to play on my current range of rank.

Thanks in advance for your help

Imo it depends a lot on your rank. If you are more than pr 25-30, then switching to tad might be a good idea, because you will find much less games on nilla than on tad (cause not many good players left). However, at a lower level, you wont really have more games on tad than on nilla. If you check here, you will often see that there are like 20% more players on tad only. And if you consider all the guys playing only treaty on tad, Im quite sure there arent even more supremacy players on tad than on nilla (well, if you like no rush games you do have a good reason to switch to tad). So if you dont have a high nilla level, you might spend $15 and still dont find more games.

About the balance, a fan patch is to be released very soon, so tad should definitely become more balanced. Before that FP tho, the civs balance was imo worse. Which is logical, since 14 civs (105 different match-ups) are three times harder to balance than 8 (36 different match-ups). About the units counter system, well I guess skirms are a bit overpowered on nilla because they can kite cav a lot, but on the other hand bows are kinda useless on tad, because they really suck.

@jerom : about goons, some people say that goons beat everything on nilla cause RI doesnt have a multiplier against them. But thats false, there is a 1.5 multiplier just like on tad, just its not written for some reason. The only different thing is that abus have a 0.5 multiplier against all cav (including goons) on nilla, while they have 0.5*1.5 = 0.75 vs goons on tad, so it basically makes the goons spam less efficient vs otto on tad because abus counter goons.

[arkz]

Thanks for that detailed input. So you're saying TAD only worth it (playerwise) if one's rank is higher than ~30?

As for Treaty: No.

Just out of interest about the cav-light infantry thing: Ok, skirm-type units counter heavy infantry. But heavy infantry can run away more or less. On the other hand cav counters light-infantry but light infantry can't really run away. So, isn't it kind of fair in vanilla that light infantry doesn't get countered by cav statwise as much as heavy infantry gets countered by light infantry?

[Wuangaga]

Thanks for that detailed input. So you''re saying TAD only worth it (playerwise) if one''s rank is higher than ~30?

As for Treaty: No.

Just out of interest about the cav-light infantry thing: Ok, skirm-type units counter heavy infantry. But heavy infantry can run away more or less. On the other hand cav counters light-infantry but light infantry can''t really run away. So, isn''t it kind of fair in vanilla that light infantry doesn''t get countered by cav statwise as much as heavy infantry gets countered by light infantry?

Nah, I''d say you can easily find enough games at master sargeant level and higher and enjoy all the little benefits of TAD.

[Kaiserklein]

Thanks for that detailed input. So you''re saying TAD only worth it (playerwise) if one''s rank is higher than ~30?

As for Treaty: No.

Just out of interest about the cav-light infantry thing: Ok, skirm-type units counter heavy infantry. But heavy infantry can run away more or less. On the other hand cav counters light-infantry but light infantry can''t really run away. So, isn''t it kind of fair in vanilla that light infantry doesn''t get countered by cav statwise as much as heavy infantry gets countered by light infantry?

Yeah I think you won''t really get more games on tad than on nilla if you''re under pr 30 or so.

I agree for the light inf, after all cav is mobile while infantry isn''t, so it''s normal that infantry is overall stronger to counterbalance this

[Kaiserklein]

Thanks for that detailed input. So youre saying TAD only worth it (playerwise) if ones rank is higher than ~30?

As for Treaty: No.

Just out of interest about the cav-light infantry thing: Ok, skirm-type units counter heavy infantry. But heavy infantry can run away more or less. On the other hand cav counters light-infantry but light infantry cant really run away. So, isnt it kind of fair in vanilla that light infantry doesnt get countered by cav statwise as much as heavy infantry gets countered by light infantry?

Nah, Id say you can easily find enough games at master sargeant level and higher and enjoy all the little benefits of TAD.

But he wont have more "rush" games on tad than on nilla at pr 20-25 level... So why pay $15 lol

[Wuangaga]

Nah, Id say you can easily find enough games at master sargeant level and higher and enjoy all the little benefits of TAD.

But he wont have more "rush" games on tad than on nilla at pr 20-25 level... So why pay $15 lol

Because of the 6 new civs to play? Everybody negates the fact that theres new content to explore and more cards in your deck + more cards in general.

[[Armag] diarouga]

+new hotkeys, more interesting meta, even if TAD isn't balanced, the meta is except for iro/otto.
Also maps are better.

[Jaeger]

But he wont have more "rush" games on tad than on nilla at pr 20-25 level... So why pay $15 lol

Because of the 6 new civs to play? Everybody negates the fact that theres new content to explore and more cards in your deck + more cards in general.

Also 3x more normal maps and all the custom maps

[purplesquid]

I'm a 2nd lieutenant and I almost never have to wait for games on TAD. Also most people I play with are really nice which is cool. . .

edit: I do normally play during peak times so depending on when you play it could be more difficult to find games

[Kaiserklein]

My main hope is that it will be easier to find games there. Is it?

That''s why I wasn''t talking about the changes, because he merely wants to find more games. So why you guys insist on new civs and stuff... If he pays $15 to find more games and has no more games than he did, then he will be screwed

[[Armag] diarouga]

At this level, you won't find more games on tad, but when you're lt+, you do.

[EAGLEMUT]

My main hope is that it will be easier to find games there. Is it?

Thats why I wasnt talking about the changes, because he merely wants to find more games. So why you guys insist on new civs and stuff... If he pays $15 to find more games and has no more games than he did, then he will be screwed

I appreciate your honesty, but Id still argue it will be easier to find games on TAD.
A year ago I would agree with you, but Vanilla has been on decline lately with more and more people switching, possibly because of the tournaments and such being hosted solely on TAD.
Heres some actual data to back up these claims I made (yep, loads super slow): http://scripts.eaglemut.com/esopop/
As you can hopefully see on the graph, average player numbers are 255 for Nilla against 356 for TAD now. I think this kind of difference is significant enough to be noticeable at any player level.

[Kaiserklein]

Thats why I wasnt talking about the changes, because he merely wants to find more games. So why you guys insist on new civs and stuff... If he pays $15 to find more games and has no more games than he did, then he will be screwed

I appreciate your honesty, but Id still argue it will be easier to find games on TAD.
A year ago I would agree with you, but Vanilla has been on decline lately with more and more people switching, possibly because of the tournaments and such being hosted solely on TAD.
Heres some actual data to back up these claims I made (yep, loads super slow): http://scripts.eaglemut.com/esopop/
As you can hopefully see on the graph, average player numbers are 255 for Nilla against 356 for TAD now. I think this kind of difference is significant enough to be noticeable at any player level.

Well if you check the server status there is often a 20% difference between nilla and tad id say. But look at the games hosted... Like 1/4 or 1/3 are treaty games lol. More people play treaty on tad for the simple reason that treaty doesnt exist on nilla, you have to host a nr game, which can result in some guy breaking the rule and rushing. Which is all the more likely since sup and nr pr are the same on nilla, so a guy can just play nr and rush to get higher pr overall... So as I said, Im not even sure there are more sup games on tad than on nilla. Yet, Id say from capt level, there are more active players on tad. On nilla the highest game hosted is often 1lt lol... On tad theres almost always some major/lt col game at least. But it doesnt really matter under capt pr

[Jaeger]

Many people on nilla are shit. On tad when you play a 3v3 everybody says gg and goes out or w/e. On nilla (I've played MANY team games on nilla) everybody just flames each other and there are just a lot of reatards.