Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
otto i think needs it, while russia were just experimenting with it, i wanted to give them a cannon card similar to what france had
- howlingwolfpaw
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
hm... what i dont like about the cannon card for russia is that realy means they wont have to reply on follow ups with villager foundries as much. they can bounce around with forts and get cannon too.
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
forts are gone.
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- Crossbow
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
small boost to ottos eco or better stats on jani/abus should be fine to balance ottoscharlemagen wrote:otto i think needs it, while russia were just experimenting with it, i wanted to give them a cannon card similar to what france had
Edit: I dont really like implementing infinite cannon cards aswell. In my opinion, massing rockets/hcs is a big flaw in game design, because they are just absurdly strong and brit/ger doesnt really have to invest anything into them.
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
well you cant mass great bombards. 26 range and 8 pop its just not worth to have more then 2 out at a time. We gave otto a small boost to eco and we made janies train a bit fasterpinkgichtenlord wrote:small boost to ottos eco or better stats on jani/abus should be fine to balance ottoscharlemagen wrote:otto i think needs it, while russia were just experimenting with it, i wanted to give them a cannon card similar to what france had
Edit: I dont really like implementing infinite cannon cards aswell. In my opinion, massing rockets/hcs is a big flaw in game design, because they are just absurdly strong and brit/ger doesnt really have to invest anything into them.
Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
This. Tbh I would love to disable all infinite cannon shipments, but I guess the majoriety would not like it and it would change the gameplay of brits/ger too much.pinkgichtenlord wrote:Edit: I dont really like implementing infinite cannon cards aswell. In my opinion, massing rockets/hcs is a big flaw in game design, because they are just absurdly strong and brit/ger doesnt really have to invest anything into them.
- edeholland
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
cometk wrote:general:
- villagers moving around mills/plants causes lag
- cav archer/gren are trash units
How does that influence the balance?
chinese:
- too weak to cav flanks
- ability to cut vills and have ridiculous overpop
But they are still OP, right? So what is wrong with being weak to cav flanks?
iroquois:
- one-trick pony' only good in team games, with natives, in cliffs
What is wrong with a one-trick pony?
- djunjuppeke
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
I totaly agree, the least that should happen is giving 1 rocket iso 2. But banishing them completely may be even better.pinkgichtenlord wrote:Edit: I dont really like implementing infinite cannon cards aswell. In my opinion, massing rockets/hcs is a big flaw in game design, because they are just absurdly strong and brit/ger doesnt really have to invest anything into them.
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
We are looking into making heavy cannons slower so they are harder to mass and keep alive. I doubt we will remove them from the game but as of rn, heavy cannons and rockets are just massed to quickly and to easily
- howlingwolfpaw
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
jannies training faster? I hope you are also considering india, where 2 cards and a tech still have cav train considerably slower than euros with just 1 card and 1 tech.
Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
edeholland wrote:cometk wrote:general:
- villagers moving around mills/plants causes lag
- cav archer/gren are trash units
How does that influence the balance?
quality of life improvement. i dont know a world where reducing a potential cause of lag in treaty wouldnt be a wanted change. as for the cav archers, it would give a couple civs more options in their composition. it would help solve ottomans anti-cav issue and it would give russia a better defensive option in strel/CA.
chinese:
- too weak to cav flanks
- ability to cut vills and have ridiculous overpop
But they are still OP, right? So what is wrong with being weak to cav flanks?
because there comes a point where theres literally no counterplay lol. you can have 219/220 pop and your composition will still get absolutely hammered by a 60% cav comp from the opp. its not fun being unable to do anything to your opponent simply because of your civ.
this also works the other way when china is overpopped and the other civ is underpopped, china snowballs really hard because they have that additional population. its polarized in an un-fun way.
iroquois:
- one-trick pony' only good in team games, with natives, in cliffs
What is wrong with a one-trick pony?
i dont understand this. a civ that is a one-trick pony is inherently bad design. rightfully so, inter has been ranting about the EPs changes to spain and how as a civ, spain is pigeonholed into doing their one viable build order over and over again. iroquois is in a similar boat, though not entirely the same. they have a very high skill cap and have the potential to be very good in the respective setting (on andes, in team games, with natives in cliffs) but in any other environment theyre horrifically bad. its hard to even consider them a civ, because theres no competitive reason to ever play them. its the same with sioux. its a joke.
- martinspjuth
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
Imo changes should be as few and small as possible. Civs like britt, ger, port, spain are fine as they are.
Lb??s:
Lot of talk have been about lb's sniping organs, but britt vs port is a rly even matchup already, perhaps even in ports favour, so do not get why u have to make britt worse in that mu. As for sniping culvs u shouldn't be having them in the reach of the lb's most of the time anyway. I can be wrong in mu??s like Ger vs Britt when Britt camps rly havy and snipes Ger culvs, but i havn't seen it. And unless britt camps rly havy, lb's will be exposed to cav rushes.
Spain
The unit that limit their playstyle the most is missionaries. Since you always have to have as much of your army as possible in their aura spain can??t run or split. Missionaries makes Spain a h2h civ. Don??t get me wrong, i don??t want missionaries removed, just wanted to point out that Spain will still be locked at a certain playstyle even if u nerf lancers. Spain is a super agressive civ, which comes from both that their lancers are very strong, AND that their art play is to weak. Nerfing lancers and giving spain 10more military pop would make them alot more viable to play deffensive with, not only agressive, which i asume is what u want. But personaly i like that spain is super agressive and not ment for deffense. Different civs have different strats, like ger is to survive first 10min untill they get hc with as few losses as possible, while spain is to crush the enemy in 10min. Only thing that might make me consider your spain change good is that Spain wont be so screwed by narrow cliffs since they not rely so much on lancers any more.
Dutch
Their signature is that you fight with 50% lager army than your enemy. Giving them more settlers lesser that uniquenes. Imo it??s better to only boost the banks. Another suggestion is that u dont change anything about dutch except giving them the fast training art card. With 150 military pop and being able to keep art out alot better, they might be fine.
Otto
I??m not sure, but giving them an age1 mill card might be good as well as making them gather xp slightly faster to make up for getting no xp from making villagers. Making jans and/or horse archers better vs cav is probably also a good idea.
Sioux
I like the idea of infinite 15/25 bisons as well as the idea of a mort shipment costing alot of coin. To make them ok in 1v1??s as well giving them the abilty to make the wooden wall (no stone uppgrade) might be an idea, altho not sure if this will take away to much uniqueness or make them a bit to strong.
Aztecs
You have changed them alot, so is hard to say for sure, but it looks good/promising. Altho keep in mind to make as few changes as possible while still reaching the goal of making them balanced.
Frensh.
I can not say your changes are good or bad here, but i think it would be enough/simplier to remove huss, the age4 fast and cheap gendarms card, the stronger art card and the cheaper nats card. That way spamming gends is not such a vaible option any more and their nats keep their uniqueness of being super strong (but not cheap) and their art is just avrage. Their goons and musk is avrage. Sure their skirms is still rly good, but still worse than cassas or lbs and without op cav and strong art france only rly strenght will be the extra 20 military pop and different in nats.
Russia
They are quite fine actually. Sure they are not the best h2h, but they are not rly that weak either. They??re able to have out alot of art since they can just spam musk instantly if enemy tries cav raid. And running/mapcontrol should be one of their main streghts. If you just replace their tm inf with a regular faster inf card (so they got 2) they do not make tm OP. I do not think forts has to be removed, it??s something rly unique for Russia which i would like to keep (not another Otto/India who build barraks). I agree Russia can get or by pass mapcontrol a bit to easy. I still think that should be one of their strenghts and the best civ for it, but it is just a bit to strong atm. Nerfing the fast building card and orps (a bit, not alot, they should still be high siege cav) should keep their unique playstyle but don??t make them to OP.
I like your Japan and Indian changes (idk about gurkha change, but the siege elephant change seems nice)
As for giving more civs (like Otto and Russia) acces to infinite hc cards (or bombards) i do not like the idea. It would just make them to much like ger. Must be better way to balance those civs.
General
I do not like that u remove the team cards. Tm cards adds more dept to the game in team games when u are to choose your civ and deck and card order. Altho i do agree some tm cards simply are to strong, i mainly refer to the faster training cards of Russia, China and Spain (their makes China so much better). Making those cards none tm cards is a good idea.
I also think u are wrong to remove the increased native build limit card. Spamming even more nats than regulary will drain u rly hard, even more so after your nerf of the cheaper nats card. So going for more nats would be a risky move, but an alright strat imo.
The idea i??m looking forward to the most however is for settlers to not walk and get stuck on mills and plantations. Fixing that would be AWSOME.
Lb??s:
Lot of talk have been about lb's sniping organs, but britt vs port is a rly even matchup already, perhaps even in ports favour, so do not get why u have to make britt worse in that mu. As for sniping culvs u shouldn't be having them in the reach of the lb's most of the time anyway. I can be wrong in mu??s like Ger vs Britt when Britt camps rly havy and snipes Ger culvs, but i havn't seen it. And unless britt camps rly havy, lb's will be exposed to cav rushes.
Spain
The unit that limit their playstyle the most is missionaries. Since you always have to have as much of your army as possible in their aura spain can??t run or split. Missionaries makes Spain a h2h civ. Don??t get me wrong, i don??t want missionaries removed, just wanted to point out that Spain will still be locked at a certain playstyle even if u nerf lancers. Spain is a super agressive civ, which comes from both that their lancers are very strong, AND that their art play is to weak. Nerfing lancers and giving spain 10more military pop would make them alot more viable to play deffensive with, not only agressive, which i asume is what u want. But personaly i like that spain is super agressive and not ment for deffense. Different civs have different strats, like ger is to survive first 10min untill they get hc with as few losses as possible, while spain is to crush the enemy in 10min. Only thing that might make me consider your spain change good is that Spain wont be so screwed by narrow cliffs since they not rely so much on lancers any more.
Dutch
Their signature is that you fight with 50% lager army than your enemy. Giving them more settlers lesser that uniquenes. Imo it??s better to only boost the banks. Another suggestion is that u dont change anything about dutch except giving them the fast training art card. With 150 military pop and being able to keep art out alot better, they might be fine.
Otto
I??m not sure, but giving them an age1 mill card might be good as well as making them gather xp slightly faster to make up for getting no xp from making villagers. Making jans and/or horse archers better vs cav is probably also a good idea.
Sioux
I like the idea of infinite 15/25 bisons as well as the idea of a mort shipment costing alot of coin. To make them ok in 1v1??s as well giving them the abilty to make the wooden wall (no stone uppgrade) might be an idea, altho not sure if this will take away to much uniqueness or make them a bit to strong.
Aztecs
You have changed them alot, so is hard to say for sure, but it looks good/promising. Altho keep in mind to make as few changes as possible while still reaching the goal of making them balanced.
Frensh.
I can not say your changes are good or bad here, but i think it would be enough/simplier to remove huss, the age4 fast and cheap gendarms card, the stronger art card and the cheaper nats card. That way spamming gends is not such a vaible option any more and their nats keep their uniqueness of being super strong (but not cheap) and their art is just avrage. Their goons and musk is avrage. Sure their skirms is still rly good, but still worse than cassas or lbs and without op cav and strong art france only rly strenght will be the extra 20 military pop and different in nats.
Russia
They are quite fine actually. Sure they are not the best h2h, but they are not rly that weak either. They??re able to have out alot of art since they can just spam musk instantly if enemy tries cav raid. And running/mapcontrol should be one of their main streghts. If you just replace their tm inf with a regular faster inf card (so they got 2) they do not make tm OP. I do not think forts has to be removed, it??s something rly unique for Russia which i would like to keep (not another Otto/India who build barraks). I agree Russia can get or by pass mapcontrol a bit to easy. I still think that should be one of their strenghts and the best civ for it, but it is just a bit to strong atm. Nerfing the fast building card and orps (a bit, not alot, they should still be high siege cav) should keep their unique playstyle but don??t make them to OP.
I like your Japan and Indian changes (idk about gurkha change, but the siege elephant change seems nice)
As for giving more civs (like Otto and Russia) acces to infinite hc cards (or bombards) i do not like the idea. It would just make them to much like ger. Must be better way to balance those civs.
General
I do not like that u remove the team cards. Tm cards adds more dept to the game in team games when u are to choose your civ and deck and card order. Altho i do agree some tm cards simply are to strong, i mainly refer to the faster training cards of Russia, China and Spain (their makes China so much better). Making those cards none tm cards is a good idea.
I also think u are wrong to remove the increased native build limit card. Spamming even more nats than regulary will drain u rly hard, even more so after your nerf of the cheaper nats card. So going for more nats would be a risky move, but an alright strat imo.
The idea i??m looking forward to the most however is for settlers to not walk and get stuck on mills and plantations. Fixing that would be AWSOME.
- princeofcarthage
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
Well they are not making a balance patch, They are making a new mod so they can change whatever they want.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
If you can't find a game on the supremacy patch, how are you going to find it on the treaty patch...
- princeofcarthage
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
Guess what?yurashic wrote:If you can''t find a game on the supremacy patch, how are you going to find it on the treaty patch...
[spoiler]{Answer}
90% of the high level tr players 1) play at same time 2) All are connected in one form or another, so it wont be hard.[/spoiler]
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
I do not think that it is worth making a patch for only a small group of people.princeofcarthage wrote:Guess what?yurashic wrote:If you cant find a game on the supremacy patch, how are you going to find it on the treaty patch...
[spoiler]{Answer}
90% of the high level tr players 1) play at same time 2) All are connected in one form or another, so it wont be hard.[/spoiler]
Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
yurashic wrote:I do not think that it is worth making a patch for only a small group of people.princeofcarthage wrote:Guess what?
[spoiler]{Answer}
90% of the high level tr players 1) play at same time 2) All are connected in one form or another, so it wont be hard.[/spoiler]
ocemilky wrote:Because was originally me just messing around with changes and testing them. This isnt a patch or anything. Its just a few of us testing changes that could aid in tr. I dont expect this to be turned into much of an unofficial patch, at least not any time soon.djunjuppeke wrote:Btw, whats wrong with the treaty fan patch? Why start all over again when theres already something (to start from).
- princeofcarthage
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
It depends. If they are ready to invest their time cuz they want a different game I think its worth it, if you expect some income then you are right but its not the case here. anyways modding aoe files is pretty easy. although bit time consuming.yurashic wrote:I do not think that it is worth making a patch for only a small group of people.princeofcarthage wrote:Guess what?
[spoiler]{Answer}
90% of the high level tr players 1) play at same time 2) All are connected in one form or another, so it wont be hard.[/spoiler]
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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- Crossbow
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
Actually, Im fine the way treaty right now is. The only thing which I would really look forward to are new maps.
- fightinfrenchman
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
pinkgichtenlord wrote:Actually, Im fine the way treaty right now is. The only thing which I would really look forward to are new maps.
There are custom made maps available already. I''ve played on one that expanded the map size for a huge 4v4 treaty game was that very fun. I think it''s called Gandalf?
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
Give india infinite mango grove card.
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- howlingwolfpaw
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
i guess with the mango grove idea which i like, is do you either make it have infinte wood but be destructible like a factory, or have it use more cards but be replantable, second option is way better for team mates as you could easily send them their own groves being a big team bonus
Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
Howling paw so are you saying a card that lets u plant mango groves that can be gathered by team mates like rice paddies? Or just a ream mango grove wagon?
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- howlingwolfpaw
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
well it seems like there are 2 ways to go with an infinite mango grove card. One permanent grove that supplies infinte wood but once it is destroyed cant be rebuilt ( making it like a factory) or like it is a 5000 wood grove that you can collect from but send infinite times. Which would then be helpful for iro or chinese or any ally because you could send them grove wagons since india gets a lot of cards.
like in one game I had a Chinese team mate send me 30 goats so that later on I would have more xp for 1300 crates to share with him. instead i could just send him groves, but really the 1300 wood card is pretty good as it is since it is collected much faster and india has plenty of shipments.
India really needs some better siege that is not so vulnerable to everything or 1 spammable unit
like in one game I had a Chinese team mate send me 30 goats so that later on I would have more xp for 1300 crates to share with him. instead i could just send him groves, but really the 1300 wood card is pretty good as it is since it is collected much faster and india has plenty of shipments.
India really needs some better siege that is not so vulnerable to everything or 1 spammable unit
- princeofcarthage
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Treaty 40 patch suggestions thread
They already get infinite 1300 w whats the prob. The only real prob as far as I think is france is just bit overdone, and maybe china to bit extent.(as far as andes is considered) on other maps maybe russia TI is maybe a gamechanger but removing the team effect should fix it. Japan ppl are only considered abt daimyo running which again depends on your response timesnoissance wrote:Give india infinite mango grove card.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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