My comments about the patch so far.
[spoiler=spoiler]
General
All (useful) team bonuses on cards removed
Removing team cards from the game is a good move, imo, because they favor certain civs even more(e.g. ger-team cav attack buffs erks and cojotes by a lot, because they are tagged as light infantry) or just make certain match ups almost unplayable(e.g. 3 shot culvs for pretty much any nilla civ). Not to forget, that cards like team 2 sw, team 3 vills, team food silo give such a huge advantage for the respective team, its better to just remove them and let the game being decided by the skill of players and not by having an op teamcomposition
Cheaper Natives changed to -20% resources (from -25%)
Cheaper nats should stay the way it is, imo. Seems more like a remnant from our previous fanpatch(which was probably horrible, lol).
Native Warrior Societies (+33% native unit build limit) removed.
I think you can keep it for the respective civs. The civs who have this card usually struggle in some aspect, so its fine for them
Infinite Native cards have undergone changes. The current thought is that they’re very strong and we want to draw back game-deciding actions to skill as opposed to simply massing. These changes in general buff the more underpowered cards and nerf the overpowered ones. This should also ease the burden on civs without infinite native overpop. Costs remain the same.
Reducing the amount of homecity nats is fine.
Still in the context of skill verses mass, another issue has been infinite artillery cards. While these cards add a unique playstyle, simply by sending a card they can obtain the most powerful artillery in the game for free. It has become apparent that these cards are too big of a power spike for free, particularly when both players are almost out of resources and one can just send 2 rockets or a heavy cannon. Rather than remove them, we’ve decided to cap these artillery units and add costs.
Rockets - Now capped at 6 units
Infinite 2 rocket shipment (British) - now costs 600 gold
Heavy Cannon - Now capped at 4 units
Infinite 1 Heavy Cannon (Russians, Germans) - now costs 400 gold
Flying Crows - Now capped at 6 units not complete
Infinite 1 Flying Crow - Now costs 250 gold
Great Bombard - Now capped at 3 units.
Infinite 1 Great Bombard shipment (Ottoman) costs 400 gold.
Capping heavy artillery is also something which is definitely needed, although I dont know if these caps are still to high.
The only thing I'd call in whole patch as standardizing is giving russians and ottos also a infite heavy artillery card. I think, in the current state of otto, they need the great bombard to compete with the high eco civs like brit and ger, while Im not sure about russia. Russias eco is already decent and they are able to just spam horse artillery and culverins. Im gonna come back to that at the russian changes.
Aztec
Macehualtin now have 90 hp, 9 damage, 2.5x vs HI and 16 range (was 80hp 8 damage 2x vs HI, 16 range). Also now cost 40 food 30 gold (40 food 30 wood)
Im not sure about chaiging maces cost to gold, I think its fine to keep it on on food + wood and just change maps to have more wood or give every twc civ some kind of constant wood income.
Jaguar Prowl Knights now have 300 hp, 15 damage, 2.5x vs HI
Dont know the stats from prowl knights, but Lukas mentioned it was a nerf, not sure why you would nerf them.
Arrow Knight cost changed to 50 wood 75 gold (from 50 food 75 gold) not complete
Not sure about that, but I think it doesn't matter too much.
War Hut Training card additionally reduces Coyote and Eagle Runner Knights training time by -30% (this is due to these units not being tagged as “infantry” and so do not benefit from Fencing School card).
Yeah, why not.
Warrior Priests no longer cost population
Good change.
British
Yeoman card now only gives +2 range to Longbows (down from +4)
Infinite 2 rocket shipment now costs 600 gold, Rockets capped at 6 units.
Rockets now have a 0.8x vs cavalry not complete
Not much to say, changes are fine. You might want to give brits lb guard and imp up from the start without sending a card, but thats a minor change.
China
There is still a long way to go with China. Playing China with a full deck, this civ is so incredibly strong only France can beat it.This civ will remain unfinished for some time as we continue to test changes. Currently in the meta we allow 99 vills no livestock no team engineering school and China is still tier 1. Watch this space.
Im not sure if they are tier 1. They are just really good in spamming decent melee units, which is good vs some civs(e.g. ottos, ports, india). This advatage might be gone with all the changes these other civs get.
Infinite 2 Flying Crows card reduced to 1 Flying Crow
Im sure that china is worse than brits overall with 99 vills only, so why dont give them atleast something decent for the lategame?
Native Warrior Attack card now only increases native unit damage by 10%, additionally reduces native unit cost by 20% ()
Should be fine.
Native Warrior Hitpoints card no longer grants movement speed bonus, now only increases native hitpoints by 10%.
I think this card was kinda decent on RE, because tad civs dont have embassies and needed the speed bonus to get faster to the fight, but this card looks kinda useless now.
Fulling Mills card - Removed
I wouldnt completely remove it. What about a change to like 100-150%?
Engineering School card - Despite no longer giving team affects, this card will remain at -30% train time for artillery.
Fine.
Siege Hitpoints card - Now only affects Hand Mortars as opposed to all Artillery not complete
Siege Attack card - Now only affects Hand Mortars as opposed to all Artillery not complete
Siege Combat card - Now only affects Hand Mortars as opposed to all Artillery not complete
Should still buff flying crows. They will still be 2 shot-able anyway.
We saw 1k HP heavy cannons from the German consulate. Units from the consulate should not be more powerful than their European counterpart. In addition, China already has a strong melee push and a ranged camp. Their ability to make heavy cannons is unnecessary especially when they get infinite flying crows.
Heavy Cannons no longer trainable from German consulate. not complete
Not sure about that, I think it was an interesting thing for china.
No longer gain + 20 villagers from Imperial wonder construction (leading to 119 villager pop)
Now can only gain +8 villagers if constructed from colonial to fortress age. Gives no villagers for later ages needs fixing
Yeah, that seems fine,
Maximum population reduced to 210 from 220 not yet complete
Must be tested.
Keshik - now cost 115 gold (from 135 food), now have 130 HP, 12 damage, .30 Ranged Resistance
INPUT NEEDED
There is ongoing discussion for the War Academy as whether to create military units individually (not likely to push through with this) as with a barracks, keep the banner armies as they are, or adjust banner armies to better-suited compositions.
My suggestions:
Old Han - 3 Chu Ko Nu, 3 Qiang Pikemen unchanged
Standard - 3 Chu Ko nu, 2 Keshik
Ming - 3 Changdao, 3 Qiang Pikemen
Territorial - 3 Changdao, 3 Arquebusier unchanged
Forbidden - 2 Iron Flail, 2 Meteor Hammer unchanged
Imperial - 3 Chu Ko Nu, 2 Iron Flail
Looks interesting, although I dont know why u completely removed steppriders from standard army.
Dutch
Dutch struggle to keep up with almost every civilization due to several factors - average to underpowered army and poor economy. We’re giving both their economy and their military-power buffs to ensure they are a competitive civ. In line with previous comments on massing, we’re shifting more of the economic buffs into villager population; this means we can buff their military as well without being too warey of a 150 pop mass of above average units.
Villager limit increased to 65 from 50. No longer gain +4 villagers from age 4 politician.
Coffee Trade (from the religious freedom/church card) additionally increases bank production by 10%
Tulip Speculation card now increases bank production by an additional 5%.
We are ware these changes may not be enough of a buff to their economy. We’re still figuring this out.
Bank of Amsterdam card now increases bank build limit by 2 not complete
Bank of Rotterdam card removed. not complete
This card slot might allow for South Sea Bubble card to be more of a viable economic strategy.
Military Reforms card now only reduces Halberdier damage vs infantry by -0.20 (from -0.25) however also increases hitpoints by 20%. Speed bonus now 15% (from 20%)
Ruyter - (age 3 stats) now have 192 hitpoints, 16 Range, 0.30 Ranged Resistance
Looks fine, I dont have much experience with dutch, so I cant say much anyway. Although they might still need some cheaper artillery
France
Food Silos card removed
This change may prove unnecessary however further testing is required
Wilderness Warfare card now only affects Coureurs and Skirmishers, now only increases hitpoints by 10% (down from 20%)
Age 2 Improved Native Warriors card removed
Age 3 Improved Native Warriors card now only affects native warrior damage and hitpoints by 10% (down from 25%)
Good changes, would have been too op in 1vs1.
Gribeauval System card now increases artillery speed by 5% (from +25% damage to culverins, mortars, horse artillery and falconets)
Meh, useless card. What about like 10% more damage for horse artillery/falconets to give them something vs infite heavy artillery from other civs?
Code Napoleon tech (from Edict of Nantes (church) card) now grants courier +60% hitpoints, +10% speed. No longer increases gather rate/building cost.
Looks interesting, although its not really a big deal.
Garde Imperial 3 now additionally grants Imperial upgrade for grenadiers; allows grenadiers to be trained from artillery foundary
We decided that in order to balance Cuirassier, they had to be similar to Hussar. We saw no point in keeping both.
Cuirassier - Now costs 130 food, 100 gold. New stats are 450 hitpoints, 26 damage (from 500 hitpoints, 30 damage). Splash removed.
Ok. This might be a bit too standardized, but it's fine if u give france to some degree superior stats to a hussar
Germans
Ulhans with every (useful) shipment removed
Germans now have normal xp generation (from a 10% deficit)
Infinite Heavy Cannon card now costs 400 gold, Heavy Cannon limit set to 4
Yeah, should be fine, although u should maybe change xp generation to like 5% deficit? They might get too many cards out pre40.
India
Native Alliance Card now reduces native warrior cost by -20%
Native Warrior Hitpoints now grants +10% hitpoints, no longer grants speed bonus.
Oh well, not sure about that for india
Mahout now have 960 hitpoints, 6 population (from 1100 hp, 7 pop). Cost changed to 350 food 250 wood (from 400 food, 250 wood)
Decent change, although I'd keep the amount of hp.
Siege Elephants now have 400 hp, 0.75 ranged resistance, 32 range, splash to 2, 6 population (from 700 hp, 0.3 range resist, 7 population).
That kind of range was necessary for them, although I dont know how good they trade vs 4-5 culvs with their low hp.
Shivaji’s Tactics card - now increases unit damage and hitpoints by 8% (from 5%), also now decreases infantry training time by 8%. not complete
Good change.
Tigers now have an infantry tag - can now be countered by units other than villagers! Orange tigers now cost 110 food (from 135)
Which units have a multiplier vs 'infantry'? Artillery and some cav units? In my opinion they should be light infantry, but that might be op. Needs some testing.
We want to free up some population for India - they’re just about on the cusp of being tier 1. The changes to siege elephants should also make them more competitive when dealing with artillery.
India is currently far away from being tier 1, lol.
I think u forgot one of indias biggest flaws, which is that their elephant units are too easy to target and outmicro and mahouts also struggle with bad pathing. I'd be interested in changing howdahs and mahouts by halving their stats and pop(ofc it has to be an even number, maybe just remove the india card which reduce elefant pop by 1 then). Some ppl would call that standardizing, but its probably better than just buffing elephants, which wont matter anyways, because they are can still easily be targeted.
What about training infantry faster?
Iroquois
I’ll be leaving Iroquois and Sioux until last, however we have some ideas. At the moment, Iroquois is either super strong or super weak, depending on how much wood is on the map. They are also cancer to play against due to cheap but strong, spammable cannons, 119 vills, livestock, fur trade, 25 pop from firepit, and 45 pop-free units with their native cards. They also have the best natives in the game. We want to draw back their economy, their reliance on wood, and their spammy cannon playstyle while rewarding good firepit micro and unit control.
Imperial Age up - 20 villagers changed to 5 Warrior Priests INPUT NEEDED
Population Dance removed not complete
Artillery Population card removed
Native Combat card removed
Infantry Attack, Infantry hitpoints, and Infantry Combat cards now longer affect natives not complete
Tomahawks now cost 75 food 25 gold (from 75 food 25 wood) not complete
Kanya Horseman now cost 100 food and 75 gold (from 100 food and 75 wood)
Manlets now cost 100 wood 130 gold (from 75 wood 125 gold), now have 380 hitpoints (from 400) not complete
Alright, I worry here a lot about these changes. I think that these ones are really really bad for iro.
Whats Iroqs current situation:
Pros:
-Strong Military(artillery decent vs infantry and artillery, strong musks, strong nats/-shipments)
-Strong boom(livestock, 120 vills, firepit for fast vill production)
- Firepit(25 overpop, damage buff)
Cons:
- Dependend on trees as only wood source
- Dependend on teammates to secure map for trees, but also that iro is able to only focus on nats fight
- Bad in small skirmishes -> Problems to handle running/jumps
- Once out of gold or wood, they are pretty much dead, because they cannot replenish it
My approach to fix iros, would be to nerf their army, but also buff their economy in the lategame
Suggestions:
Economy:
- Give them an extra gold card
- As ppl before me suggested, it should be possible to send a mango grove, but limit it to only 1 at a time and max 10-15(needs testing)
- Another approach for fixing their coin/wood problem is to buff their infinite res shipment. Maybe something like 750/750 wood/gold?
- Reducing overpop vills to 10
- Their food economy seems fine for me, but if they want to swich to plantations, iros should slowly drain on food
Military:
- removing nats from being buffed by any card is a good idea
- maybe weaken the damage buff dance
- one more pop for light cannons should be ok
- slightly buff tomahawks melee damage or melee multiplier vs cav
- slightly buff goons base damage or multiplier vs cav
Last 2 buffs are probably needed vs melee focused civs, since iros nats got nerfed hard.
Note that I have never really played a lot of iros and these are my observations from my games vs iro and also with iro as teammate
Japan
Villager limit increased to 80 (from 75)
Shrines can now train goats
Japan has a bit of an xp sink and struggle to fit a lot of their military cards into their deck. We’re hoping these card changes will free up more card diversity.
Stream of Enlightenment card removed (Enemy units nearby monks have less damage)
Japan have 3 rice paddy shipments on their own. We’ve combined two of them while slightly buffing Chonindo to make up for the lost increase.
Reclaimed Land delivers 1 rice paddy and now increases rice paddy gather rate by 10%
Flooded Parcel card combined into Reclaimed land card.
Chonindo increased to 10% gather increase (from 8%)
We’re slightly tweaking Japan’s insane infantry stats due to the eco buffs. We’re also trying to encourage more production from buildings as Daimyo/Shogun are too mobile to train units at such a speed.
Bakufu card now makes Daimyo and Shoguns train units 30% slower but stables and barracks train 30% faster (from twice as fast on daimyo/shogun)
Yumi Archer Attack card increases damage by 10% (from 15%)
Ashigaru Musketeer Attack card increases Ashi damage by 10% (from 15%)
Way of the Bow now only increases Yumi hitpoints by 10% (from 15%)
Close Combat card now only increases Ashigaru hitpoints by 10% (from 15%)
Morutaru Range card now only adds 4 range to Morutaru (from 6)
Native Warrior Attack now only increases warrior damage by 10% (
Native Alliance now decreases native cost by 20%
We how Japan’s power comes mainly from their infantry. We’ve slightly buffed flaming arrows to bring them closer towards a culverin.
Flaming Arrow range increased to 30 (from 28), multiplier vs artillery increased to 1.7 (from 1.5) not complete
Changes seem fine, although I dont know why artillery multiplier to 1.7. Is it needed to 2-shot culvs?Ottoman
Ottomans are in a similar position as India where they are nearly a balanced civ. We want to open up more viable strategies than massing abus behind natives to make them competitive. One of their biggest issues was underpowered cards - there simply wasn’t enough good cards for Otto to take, relative to any other civ. We’ve adjusted some of their cards slightly.
Added 1 Infinite Great Bombard card. Bombard limit set to 3, card costs 400 gold. not complete
Artillery Hitpoints card moved to age 3.
The Ottoman economy appears to be on the cusp of being competitive. Rather than adding an eco card that will benefit them for the duration of the game, we thought that Otto just need a slight push. Seeing as their eco is more focussed on their villager maxing time, we decided to buff their eco in that direction.
Mosque changes:
The following techs still increase max vill pop/villager training speed by the same amount. Not only should this speed up maxing time by about 2 minutes, the costs of the techs are less of a burden at those stages of the game.
Galata Tower District - Costs 100 food 100 gold, delivers 2 settlers
Topkapi - Costs 200 food, 200 wood, 200 gold, delivers 4 settlers
Tabzimat - Costs 300 food, 300 wood, 300 gold, delivers 6 villagers
Abbasid Market - Costs 400 wood (from 600) not complete
Palace Intrigue (church card) - Tufanci corps tech now additionally increases Janissary training speed by 10%
Janissary melee multiplier vs cavalry now 2.5 (from 2.0), vs light infantry now 2.0 (from 1.5)
Cavalry Archers now have .20 ranged resistance (from .20 melee resistance)
Interesting changes to buff their boom, although I dont know why u dont just increase inf training speed by 10%. In a teamgame it is not really a big deal, but in a 1vs1 it might be, because any other civs can pretty much spam nats fasterPortuguese
Ports are one of the closest civs to being balanced. However certain aspects make them the most frustrating civ to play against. This slight nerf to mortars should draw back some of the insane pressure ports can mount while camping. Consider the changes to explorers in the general section a nerf to ports.
Rangefinding now increases mortar range by 8 (from 10) not yet complete
Treaty of Tordesillas (church card):
Besteiros (xbowmen) tech removed
Cheaper Natives tech added - native units are 10% cheaper, costs 500 wood. needs fixing
Looks fine.Russia
Rather than touching Russia’s infantry, we decided giving them Heavy Cannons would be a better fix for their lacking power. Their absurd map control has switched from an almost unkillable building to more in line with other civs.
Infinite 1 Heavy Cannon card added, costs 400 gold
Heavy Cannon capped at 4 units
Well, thats what I'd call standardizing. Might not be the best choice.
Strelet range increased to 16 from 14
Cossack now have 220 hitpoints and 24 damage (from 225 hitpoints and 26 damage)
I dont think u have to nerf cossacks. They are already expensive.
National Redoubt card now allows musketeers to build blockhouses, stables, and artillery foundries (no longer allows buildable forts)
Sevastopol card no longer affects blockhouses; effect reduced to -25% build points (from -50%)
But why? I dont really understand this nerf
Oprichnik siege damage reduced to 25 (from 75) not complete
Spain
Spain only needs a brief touch up to slightly scale back their early army advantage while slowing their fall-off later in the game.
Spain can now age to 3 with fast age, age to 4 with 1k coin
Missionaries no longer cost population
Lancers now have 0.5 multiplier vs Heavy Infantry. This should still give them a 2x bonus vs Heavy Infantry after Caballeros card. needs fixing
Lets see how spain gonna be with 10 more pop. I still think they will struggle vs civs with good lategame shipments[/spoiler]
