Map Suggestion Thread

[Janer]

ROCKIES!

[WickedCossack]

Wowza I'd forgotten all about rockies. Are there any other nilla maps that were removed from the TAD standard map pool ? I know Northwest Territories was a TWC one that got taken out. (NWT looks superb from an aesthetic pov)

Actually the aoe3 team did an amazing job with developing so many unique maps (30+) that each play out differently. They just needed to focus more on the fairness of resource distribution since most of them are unplayable.

[Garja]

Hm I mean for NE the ponds are too close to the TC, reduce them by half the size seems like a good option (like cut the half closest to the TC), so frig dont have a range on like half the map. thats just the map I always wanted to be fixed so I might have an obsession over it

The thing with NE (and official maps in general) is that it is meant to be abusable in some way. Thats what makes them unique.
Just think that the original NE was supposed to have cliffs instead of ponds (theyre still in the map code). Adopting that would fix the pond abusing altogether but would you really remove that unique aspect of the map now?
The pond resize is more or less the same thing but to a lesser extent. Id rather make a new map rather than fixing an existing one.

ROCKIES!

I made a new map that plays a bit like Rockies. Not exactly like that but similar in the fact that it forces players to move out from the base and that it has multiple levels.

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

Boneng argued that some of the new Garja maps (as much as i like them etc) are similar in how it plays out with hunts and timings. I think he has a point, I definitely like some extra maps which allow for more variety in builds, like Bayou and Andes. Yucatan might be the extra map which these water players want. Though considering the heavy water it allows for on both sides, i think this should come into play from BO 5 or even BO 7 only.

I still like Siberia and Painted a lot, they just need to get fixed regarding spawning.

Map Veto system is something i really like to see as well

A too heavy water map like honshu doesnt make sense to me. Not only is it just too different from the general game theme, it will also result in boring games (to cast as well). Lots of walls, ppl migrating to corners, booming like zzzzz, ppl choosing just port or japs and prob just extra useless lagg as well. The NE game from a tourney before spadel vs boneng was actually still good cause of the land elements.

Umeu's argument of the ships defending the water is very valid. The problem is that if the water eco is good (so enough res and lasting, not like most Garja maps), you just get crushed by frigates and monitors and there is (almost nothing) you can do even with a good land eco. Its just a matter of time, if the water player plays it properly.
Ye H2O and Garja you have been talking about this, but i still have to see it happening from either of you vs someone like Blackstar, Boneng or Kynesie. I think you still underestimate the strength of water on a heavier water map. And here im also taking into account that you cant just always pick an op civ like India or similar to play vs it.

[Kynesie]

I also think this would work best with a map veto system and/or say starting map given and loser picks next map from a set pool for the round. (So having a map pool of 5 for a Bo3 for instance.) Same map order gets a little tiring, especially when 95% of the competitors only got to a point where they are playing on the first 3 maps anyhows.

+1


Water maps need at least 5 whales...



What is the interest to play on a map like hudson bay (4 whales) if nobody plays water ? Except me, i only saw boneng boneng boom water in a game he has already lost. In more than 100 games on hudson bay...

I hope a fix gp too.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I also think this would work best with a map veto system and/or say starting map given and loser picks next map from a set pool for the round. (So having a map pool of 5 for a Bo3 for instance.) Same map order gets a little tiring, especially when 95% of the competitors only got to a point where they are playing on the first 3 maps anyhows.

+1


Water maps need at least 5 whales...



What is the interest to play on a map like hudson bay (4 whales) if nobody plays water ? Except me, i only saw boneng boneng boom water in a game he has already lost. In more than 100 games on hudson bay...

I hope a fix gp too.

A normal version of sag and yucatan, with 5-6 whales. Even if some people find it "unfair", that is totally beatable.


Best choice imo is [span] [/span]1st map: gp or kamchatka
[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [span] [/span]2nd map: looser map[span] [/span][/span]
[span][span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span]3rd map: looser map[/span][/span]
[span][span]
[/span][/span]
[span][span]This tournament, players had to learn to play with every civs, it would be great if they also had to learn how to play every maps![/span][/span]

[Goodspeed]

I hate to hijack this thread with a discussion about water but come on guys, game design 101. You don't promote non-interactive game play. Whales have got to go. If whales are out of the picture, this would open up a lot of possibilities to make water an actual viable way to play without breaking the game. Like a fish gather increase would become an option then.
Look at AoC and learn from it.

[bart331]

If there is water on map there shud be reason to use it.

[[Armag] diarouga]

If there is water on map there shud be reason to use it.

+1
Gs wants water just because he likes blue^^

[lemmings121]

I hate to hijack this thread with a discussion about water but come on guys, game design 101. You don''t promote non-interactive game play. Whales have got to go. If whales are out of the picture, this would open up a lot of possibilities to make water an actual viable way to play without breaking the game. Like a fish gather increase would become an option then.
Look at AoC and learn from it.

This looks good.
Maybe a map can have even more fish then now, if it doesnt have whales, and bring good games using water.
----

now back to the topic:
I really like the suggestions that are popping up, imo the biggest advantage of this tournamet vs old ones like wcs, was the civ rules, forcing different playstyles (not jap mirrors all month long..)
And I do think the map sugestions are in the right direction..

Having a map without tps, one with extra crates, one with water.. I would say this variety is only positive for the champ!
Also, veto system sounds promissing.

[musketjr]

there should be no maps with water in them as the whole design of water is flawed.

we can take h20 and garja's opinion that sea booming is terrible, and therefore water without being patched, according to them, is an irrelevant part of the game (and we should focus on land maps instead)

they are of course wrong, and water is far too strong, both the eco and the ships. (point being whether too good or too bad water is an uneccesary and badly designed part of the game) short memories anyone? bsop was winning games vs h20 with zero effort by making a wall and training fishing boats. boneng won the game that garja won in the tourny by doing the same thing (without deleting all of his goons before he aged up to age 4)

kynesie's games from tourny are irrelevant because his build and unit choices were sub optimal

[musketjr]

that's from a player POV though, for spectators i agree with wickedcossack, a map like hispa would make for funny games, but promoting unbalanced stuff to amuse viewers is the wrong priority

[WickedCossack]

Started a Water thread to stop the pirates over here

http://eso-community.net/thread/559/water-thread

[Nymphomaniac]

In a set of 9 maps, what's wrong with having 3 water maps?? And a completely water heavy map (ceylon/honshu) for say 8th match won't hurt either.
For people saying whales should be removed or reduced to max 3 in number, i think we already saw how many times water came into play in manchuria (supposedly a water map with 3 whales lol).
A person going for water more often than not, aims for a late game water eco to take game to industrial age. If whales are removed, water will run out of resources till then. It puts water player in more disadvantage, as he already won't have map control and he would have invested at least 2 cards (schooners + improved gathering) which won't pay if u remove whales (not taking into account other warship cards one will use to defend in water as well).
Whales are to water what mills/ plantations are to land imo.
If players can fight for land map control why not fight for water control as well (that too for only 3 games in possible BO9). Moreover microing water warships is also interesting to watch. I have seen players micro 2 caravels against 3 caravels and win the fight without any tower/TC fire helping.

Next thing about how many whales should be in a map should be decided by players who are interested to go for water strats, not those who don't prefer it and are pulling others as well..

[deleted_user0]

Whales ahould never have bern infinite, but 2-4 whales is enough. 6 is too much, although it depends on the type of map.

Ik kinda against pure water though, but if you know its coming i suppose its fine. If there will be looser map picks, then not.

[_H2O]

This is why I said keep discussion to a minimum. I want out of the box ideas. I am not getting anything out the discussion so far to be honest

The early posts before the water argument were the kind of thing I am looking for.

[Mimsy for President]

Imho Yucatan is already balanced & nicely designed. No need to replace it by Baja California. Moreover I don't think playing on Borneo, Hispaniola or Honshu is a good idea especially for the commentators & the viewers.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Imho Yucatan is already balanced &' nicely designed. No need to replace it by Baja California. Moreover I don''t think playing on Borneo, Hispaniola or Honshu is a good idea especially for the commentators &' the viewers.

What''s the problem with borneo?
What''s the matter with the looser picks map system? It ofc has to be a standart map and it is fair because if the guy who won the 1st game looses the 2nd because of bad map choice, he can choose his favorite map in game3.
We all agree to say that the winner of a round should be better than his opponent, playing on maps without trees near the water or with only 2 whales is making the water play impossible and make a player less good on water maps winning vs a good water player...

[Mimsy for President]

@diarouga just a feeling

[[Armag] diarouga]

@diarouga just a feeling

That''s easier for me to boom in sag than in borneo.

[Mimsy for President]

@diarouga I meant it will get boring because of the water all around. It's not about easier or not.

[blackstarop]

I read something about gp wich i hope is gonna be totally ignored cause gp is most boring and how to say (retarded) map in this game ,tbh this tourney had perfectly good maps (maybe 2 extra whales for hudson would be better) but generally the maps were totally fine and balanced ,water is totally beatable in all of these maps.

[Aramir]

whats so broken about yucatan?

[Garja]

whats so broken about yucatan?

Nothing but, the map isn''t perfect either.
The main issue I''d say it''s the the TC placement. Often one player is cornered behind the nat post while the other has his TC more toward the center. This makes a big difference in resource accessibility,
Resource count/distribution is also a bit odd as well.

Last but not least it''s not a custom map