Why do people do this shit?

[momuuu]

Amazing that you know how many unrated games I played 5-7 years ago! It just turns out that checking a list every signle time you find a match is a pretty big effort for on average little return.

[gibson]

You mean 5-7 years ago when moesbar ui didn't exist and the worst people did was mh, drop or oos? Most people wouldn't be checking a list every single game but even if they did what's that to you? I'd just rather resign at the start than lose to a brit player who sends 700w 3x times or a Russian player who spawns 6 vils or an Aztec player who sends 3x 5 vils. For some unknown reason all the mods refuse to have any sort of black list or even talk about cheaters because they claim to know exactly all the bad things that would happen if such a list would come around when in reality they don't know dick and likely are just too lazy to want to deal with it.

[zoom]

A player with enough knowledge can change the tool and block players that he does not want play on QS, but I believe it does not go much beyond that (if that is what you mean with "abused")

I did not understand the part " which may as well make it borderline cheating in its own right."
My English is very limited

That is what I meant when I said it could be "abused." I said it could be "borderline cheating" because of this. Of course it probably wouldn't be easy to change at first, but it's still doable.

Actually it is quite simple to edit but I do not give a shit for that for several reasons, one of them:
- Few people have enough knowledge to do it
- Who make this change not will publish it, and even of do, will have little visibility

Anyway this is a small bad effect compared to improvement that can bring.

Good post. Also:

1. The more players you block, the fewer games you will find.
2. In the very worst case you will end up with the same options as for a hosted game.

[zoom]

Send me a private message who want to join the team that will manage the cheater blacklist.
Im finishing a tool that will block players who are on that list on QS and Lobby.

Sounds like this tool could be abused in other ways, which may as well make it borderline cheating in its own right.

In any case, we don't have any power on ESOC to stop anyone from cheating. You can have all the witch hunts you want but they're still going to be there. All these "anti-cheating" and "blacklisting" conversations do is breed anger and negativity, which in turn makes the community a very unwelcoming and unenjoyable place to come talk about AoE3.

If that's the kind of community that everyone wants though... :/

Negativity, you say?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQI0E1WCLMU&t=6s[/video]

[iNcog]

I'm with mitoe on this one

not only is trying to actively combat cheaters ineffective (nb: not passive protection thanks to EP), it's probably counter-productive.

giving cheaters special attention / time is just encouraging them. they don't care about aoe3 they just want to grief things up

[zoom]

Cheaters don't care about being on a blacklist. People just want to expose them to get some sort of personal revenge which is beyond the scope of this site. Cheaters are well known and you can't do much about it when you find them in qs.

I don't believe anyone is claiming that cheaters care about it; only that it would help users know which players to avoid and inadvertently bring more traffic to ESOC.

I can see why some might not like the idea, but surely the above cannot be denied, can it?

You clearly didn't read the rest of the posts when you wrote this lol.

In any case, if you volunteer to mantain a blacklist (check reports, update list, etc.) then it's ok for me. Try to ask site admins.

I don't volunteer for anything. In this case even less, since I'm not even advocating a black-list. I just think users should be allowed to make one if they wish, so long as it does not breaky any site rules.

I did read the entire thread I'm sure, but my memory is awful, haha.

[britishmusketeer]

The more players you block, the fewer games you will find

How tragic not being able to play with cheaters lol.

[pecelot]

I'm sure cheaters have a lot more reasons for their actions than just drawing attention too them as individuals. They get satisfied by hacking, abusing certain things and such, watching their PR grow constantly, also by watching other people rage, which is a necessary part of their plan, but it's most certainly not their main motivation.

[Papist]

For some unknown reason all the mods refuse to have any sort of black list or even talk about cheaters because they claim to know exactly all the bad things that would happen if such a list would come around

Unknown reason? Multiple team members have explained the logic behind declining to host a BL. Perhaps you should read through the thread again, since you clearly weren't paying attention the first time.

when in reality they don't know dick and likely are just too lazy to want to deal with it.

When in doubt, go for the personal attacks. If we don't support your idea, we must be lazy and stupid.

[Kaiserklein]

Papist I'll honestly wonder my whole life how you became a mod. You're so annoying, you're literally a little esoc robot, repeating the same things over and over even though we proved them wrong, always praising anything related to esoc without even using your brain, it's retarded
And most annoying of all, you really write like you were our teacher, while I'm still wondering what special knowledge you have to act like that

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah xD.
He was one of the guy with BTB but didn't get warned and told us how bad we are :(

[zoom]

The more players you block, the fewer games you will find

How tragic not being able to play with cheaters lol.

I am not referring to blocking cheaters: I am referring to blocking players – who aren't cheating – for arbitrary reasons, to which the fact I highlighted acts as a disincentive.

[Papist]

Papist I'll honestly wonder my whole life how you became a mod. You're so annoying, you're literally a little esoc robot, repeating the same things over and over even though we proved them wrong

What am I doing that annoys you? Disagreeing with your ideas? Maybe I should be more like you, and get personal when people disagree with my thoughts about the game. Not that it matters - I don't care what some raging merc lamer on a gaming forum thinks of me anyway.

always praising anything related to esoc without even using your brain, it's retarded

Alt-d? Neuron? thebritish? All places I have disagreed with the esoc team. Maybe you didn't notice because I didn't write out angry all-caps, profanity-laden rants about it like you are known to.

And most annoying of all, you really write like you were our teacher, while I'm still wondering what special knowledge you have to act like that

Nope, I'm just explaining my point of view. And I think that as a moderator, I know a lot more about moderating issues than you, the guy who logs in every other hour to pound on his keyboard.

[Papist]

Yeah xD.
He was one of the guy with BTB but didn't get warned and told us how bad we are :(

I did get warned and I'm not sure when I told anyone "how bad they were".

[britishmusketeer]

The more players you block, the fewer games you will find

How tragic not being able to play with cheaters lol.

I am not referring to blocking cheaters: I am referring to blocking players who aren't cheating for arbitrary reasons, to which the fact I highlighted acts as a disincentive.

so you are saying there are people that cheat for good reasons?

[Kaiserklein]

What am I doing that annoys you? Disagreeing with your ideas? Maybe I should be more like you, and get personal when people disagree with my thoughts about the game.

"Perhaps you should read through the thread again, since you clearly weren't paying attention the first time." Seriously ? You don't see how annoying it can be to read that kind of shit ? You really sound like a fucking teacher man.

Not that it matters - I don't care what some raging merc lamer on a gaming forum thinks of me anyway.

"merc lamer". Ok Mr. MS, plz moar gud analyses about aoe.
Yeah, on a gaming forum. In case you forgot, you're the one being nerd enough to be mod of that forum...

Alt-d? Neuron? thebritish? All places I have disagreed with the esoc team. Maybe you didn't notice because I didn't write out angry all-caps, profanity-laden rants about it like you are known to.

Nah man you kept sucking the mods' cock to be a mod yourself, and now that you're one it's even worse. You're a good little soldier. Just have a look at everything mods wrote in this thread, it just looks like you guys copy pasted each other's posts. You always write the same stuff, basically repeating what the book of the perfect little esoc soldier says : "blah blah blah negativity blah blah blah report to microsoft blah blah blah we're not the eso police blah blah blah no way to be 100% sure about the cheaters". Yet I explained why every single of those fucking points is false but you guys just ignore it, as usual.

Nope, I'm just explaining my point of view. And I think that as a moderator, I know a lot more about moderating issues than you, the guy who logs in every other hour to pound on his keyboard.

No you're really not. The way you talk is really annoying, you're a know-it-all. Idc what you can know about moderating, you won't even give a try to what people are asking, even though approx 90% of people want this BL. Because you're too lazy and scared, yes. You should try to learn from Buckethead... He's coding a shit ton of stuff for this website (while I'm still wondering what you do tbh, except breaking people's balls on various threads) yet he still volunteers to dedicate some more of his free time to try and satisfy the community. I'm not asking that much from a mod, but just give us a fucking blacklist, it's easy. As Riki said, you should trust buckethead.

If you guys hadn't decided that cheaters would be a taboo on esoc, we wouldn't have all this drama. And I'm not only talking about this thread, but also of the daily accusations you have to remove, and all people complaining that we can't report cheaters.

[zoom]

Papist I'll honestly wonder my whole life how you became a mod. You're so annoying, you're literally a little esoc robot, repeating the same things over and over even though we proved them wrong, always praising anything related to esoc without even using your brain, it's retarded
And most annoying of all, you really write like you were our teacher, while I'm still wondering what special knowledge you have to act like that

He's really just expressing his dissenting opinion, arguing from a point-of-view he considers to be true. To be fair, so are you, among others. I don't see how your perceived inability of his to consider opposing arguments (which seems mutual, by the way) bears any relevance to his merit(s) as a moderator, and I very much doubt he is literally a little ESOC robot. I do share your perception and its frustration though.

Yeah xD.
He was one of the guy with BTB but didn't get warned and told us how bad we are :(

Please refrain from off-topic discussion of moderating. Also, I think it would be in your own best interest to move on with your life as far as that's concerned.


P.S. Let's appreciate or at least not depreciate community members volunteering to help.

P.P.S. I did not mean to offend anyone in using these emoticons.

[zoom]

Show hidden quotes

The more players you block, the fewer games you will find

How tragic not being able to play with cheaters lol.

I am not referring to blocking cheaters: I am referring to blocking players – who aren't cheating – for arbitrary reasons, to which the fact I highlighted acts as a disincentive.

so you are saying there are people that cheat for good reasons?

At great risk of being trolled softly: No. I am saying that the fact of "the more players you block, the fewer games you will find" acts as a disincentive to adding players to the list for arbitrary reasons not related to cheating.

Thank you for highlighting my poor formatting, which I have now updated accordingly.

[britishmusketeer]

Show hidden quotes

The more players you block, the fewer games you will find

How tragic not being able to play with cheaters lol.

I am not referring to blocking cheaters: I am referring to blocking players – who aren't cheating – for arbitrary reasons, to which the fact I highlighted acts as a disincentive.

so you are saying there are people that cheat for good reasons?

At great risk of being trolled softly: No. I am saying that the fact of "the more players you block, the fewer games you will find" acts as a disincentive to adding players to the list for arbitrary reasons not related to cheating.

Thank you for highlighting my poor formatting, which I have now updated accordingly.

I thought it was established that people would only be added to the ban list if there was solid proof that they were indeed cheating? Obviously banning people for point trading/noob bashing ect would reduce player base unnecessarily.

[zoom]

Show hidden quotes

The more players you block, the fewer games you will find

How tragic not being able to play with cheaters lol.

I am not referring to blocking cheaters: I am referring to blocking players – who aren't cheating – for arbitrary reasons, to which the fact I highlighted acts as a disincentive.

so you are saying there are people that cheat for good reasons?

At great risk of being trolled softly: No. I am saying that the fact of "the more players you block, the fewer games you will find" acts as a disincentive to adding players to the list for arbitrary reasons not related to cheating.

Thank you for highlighting my poor formatting, which I have now updated accordingly.

I thought it was established that people would only be added to the ban list if there was solid proof that they were indeed cheating? Obviously banning people for point trading/noob bashing ect would reduce player base unnecessarily.

The comment you made concerns a post that is discussing Jonatas' mod idea, and user ability to individually customize the list of banned players in particular. It should be clear if you read my original post (including its quotes) carefully one more time.

[Papist]

No you're really not. The way you talk is really annoying, you're a know-it-all.

Please quote the post of mine where I ever claimed to know any more than anyone else about anything. This is at least the second time you have made this allegation - you didn't have an example before and you don't now. It's just your excuse for flaming me. Also, if you don't want me to be your teacher, don;t have a tantrum every time someone disagrees with you.

Idc what you can know about moderating, you won't even give a try to what people are asking, even though approx 90% of people want this BL. Because you're too lazy and scared, yes.

Has it ever occurred to you that I might just disagree with you because I have a different perspective rather than some ulterior motive? If not, please give it a thought, because the allegation that I am "lazy" or "scared" (dafuq?) because I won't do what you want is absurd. 90% of people wanting the opposite

You should try to learn from Buckethead... He's coding a shit ton of stuff for this website (while I'm still wondering what you do tbh, except breaking people's balls on various threads) yet he still volunteers to dedicate some more of his free time to try and satisfy the community. I'm not asking that much from a mod, but just give us a fucking blacklist, it's easy. As Riki said, you should trust buckethead.

It being "easy" has nothing to do with anything; it would also be easy to shut the forum down, but that wouldn't be good for the community, now would it? The same goes for the blacklist - do you really want ESOC to be the place people come to start witch hunts against other players and bitch about various exploits? I sure don't. Nice job throwing another barb at me btw. If you want to know what I do here, look at my forum rank. I moderate, Buckethead develops, and he does an excellent job at it. That doesn't mean I must agree with everything he says though - believe it or not, we don't all think in lockstep with one another.

[Hazza54321]

What am I doing that annoys you? Disagreeing with your ideas? Maybe I should be more like you, and get personal when people disagree with my thoughts about the game.

"Perhaps you should read through the thread again, since you clearly weren't paying attention the first time." Seriously ? You don't see how annoying it can be to read that kind of shit ? You really sound like a fucking teacher man.

Not that it matters - I don't care what some raging merc lamer on a gaming forum thinks of me anyway.

"merc lamer". Ok Mr. MS, plz moar gud analyses about aoe.
Yeah, on a gaming forum. In case you forgot, you're the one being nerd enough to be mod of that forum...

Alt-d? Neuron? thebritish? All places I have disagreed with the esoc team. Maybe you didn't notice because I didn't write out angry all-caps, profanity-laden rants about it like you are known to.

Nah man you kept sucking the mods' cock to be a mod yourself, and now that you're one it's even worse. You're a good little soldier. Just have a look at everything mods wrote in this thread, it just looks like you guys copy pasted each other's posts. You always write the same stuff, basically repeating what the book of the perfect little esoc soldier says : "blah blah blah negativity blah blah blah report to microsoft blah blah blah we're not the eso police blah blah blah no way to be 100% sure about the cheaters". Yet I explained why every single of those fucking points is false but you guys just ignore it, as usual.

Nope, I'm just explaining my point of view. And I think that as a moderator, I know a lot more about moderating issues than you, the guy who logs in every other hour to pound on his keyboard.

No you're really not. The way you talk is really annoying, you're a know-it-all. Idc what you can know about moderating, you won't even give a try to what people are asking, even though approx 90% of people want this BL. Because you're too lazy and scared, yes. You should try to learn from Buckethead... He's coding a shit ton of stuff for this website (while I'm still wondering what you do tbh, except breaking people's balls on various threads) yet he still volunteers to dedicate some more of his free time to try and satisfy the community. I'm not asking that much from a mod, but just give us a fucking blacklist, it's easy. As Riki said, you should trust buckethead.

If you guys hadn't decided that cheaters would be a taboo on esoc, we wouldn't have all this drama. And I'm not only talking about this thread, but also of the daily accusations you have to remove, and all people complaining that we can't report cheaters.

i do think u take things to a personal level, i also think youre being abit harsh on papist, however i do agree with 100% of your points about that repeating the same shit when we've come up with solutions.

[Mvp618]

Papist does not understand that the way he talks is condescending as fuck, its as if he is talking down to others. It's kinda rude. But then again, its a Hillary supporter we are dealing with; a bit of self entitlement is to be expected.

[zoom]

No you're really not. The way you talk is really annoying, you're a know-it-all.

Please quote the post of mine where I ever claimed to know any more than anyone else about anything. This is at least the second time you have made this allegation - you didn't have an example before and you don't now. It's just your excuse for flaming me. Also, if you don't want me to be your teacher, don;t have a tantrum every time someone disagrees with you.

...

Without meaning to entangle myself in any further discussion with either of you, I think this is a good general example of looking past or misinterpreting an opposing perspective, as well as a good particular example for explaining what (I believe) Kaiserklein actually means. In this specific case, you are countering a claim never made that you explicitly said the equivalent of "i know more about this than you do." The claim made is that the way in which you phrase your posts – exacerbated by the perceived tendency of yours to automatically discount (read: misunderstand) any arguments made against your position – makes you comes across largely as a know-it-all or if you will making a strongly implicit "Garjument," i.e "the conviction of the absolute infallibility of one's opinion to the extent of depreciating or disregarding those of others."

[zoom]

Papist does not understand that the way he talks is condescending as fuck, its as if he is talking down to others. It's kinda rude. But then again, its a Hillary supporter we are dealing with; a bit of self entitlement is to be expected.

As far as the debate goes, this can be said for others than him alone. I would guess to me the foremost reason for experiencing his posts in this way is that he misunderstands – to one extent & for one reason or another – the arguments of others.