[misleading]ESOC Patch to block out certain players?

[saveyourskill]

Don't hate me for this xP
I think its funny.
May have to zoom in on it to see it sorry :/

There's a difference between throwing a cheating suspicion after a game when I'm angry and seriously accusing you of cheating. Also at that time I didn't know that china has a bug, like russia, in the "spent on units" column (they both get inflated numbers). When I saw you spent twice more in units than me while having only a bit more eco I thought it was cheating.
Also the fact that you point traded so quickly from major to pr 37 didn't help...

I have explained to why I "point traded" to some. and as I said I gain 1 pr from pr 33 to 34.
And to the reason why you said I was major was because i went on a break for awhile and was decay to pr 25.
The reason to why I took a break was because I couldn't find games then when I came back I played 3v3 games with kids on re and I would win and lose 50/50.
So I stayed major for awhile playing 3v3 with them. Before I took my break I was an lt col. So I can understand.
And if you want me to explain to why I "point traded" I can if you want.
No hard feeling ofc

[Mr_Bramboy]

---

Is Microsoft really going to be OK with certain players using a third-party program to basically tamper with QS? Remember that MS is sometimes good (I mean ESO is still up..) but they're sometimes retarded as well.

They're okay with certain players breaking their game by literally spawning (often unobtainable) units, so it's safe to say this shouldn't be an issue.

[Kaiserklein]

I have explained to why I "point traded" to some. and as I said I gain 1 pr from pr 33 to 34.
And to the reason why you said I was major was because i went on a break for awhile and was decay to pr 25.
The reason to why I took a break was because I couldn't find games then when I came back I played 3v3 games with kids on re and I would win and lose 50/50.
So I stayed major for awhile playing 3v3 with them. Before I took my break I was an lt col. So I can understand.
And if you want me to explain to why I "point traded" I can if you want.
No hard feeling ofc

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... lent=&ft=1
76 games. 1 pr really ? You started way before pr 33 btw, sadly elo pr is broken so it's not accurate. I'd be curious about the explanation...
Either way I don't even really care that you point traded, was just saying it's one of the reasons why I thought you were a cheater : I suddenly saw you being a colonel, it was weird, thought you cheated your way to that rank.
It's off topic anyway so I'll stop discussing that here.

[Garja]

Ye better stop with this. It's exactly the type of discussion we try to avoid.

[Kaiserklein]

yeah well, had to answer the flame

[knusch]

Ye better stop with this. It's exactly the type of discussion we try to avoid.

not that u never accused anyone of cheating, right?

its all love xD

[deleted_user0]

Il Garaja doesn't accuse, he speaks Truth and his word is Law.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Il Garaja doesn't accuse, he speaks Truth and his word is Law.

His*

[saveyourskill]

@Kaiserklein

notification

check pm. Back to the topic. It should just block these players from matching you because pesting them doesnt work as you still can match with them in there.

[zoom]

EP aims to improve balance and prevent ppl from cheating. If u got evidence that ppl engage in cheating (from what i assume and heard it's actually the case that the ep-team actually has prove of ppl launching the patch with installed cheats for example), a community created patch should be taking the position that cheaters r not welcomed to play this patch and as a result get banned.

Hello! It is good to see you on here. While what you are saying is certainly true, there are a couple of things to note with regards to your post:

Despite the misguided title of this thread, this modification (by the looks of it) cannot possibly have anything to do with the EP, since it would be a redundant addition to pre-existing anti-cheat features. In fact, I would even argue that banning certain IP:s or user-names is undesirable, so long as they are unable to cheat on the patch, especially considering the risk of EP users being "falsely flagged" due to errors. Finally, because of its seemingly controversial nature, I find it unlikely that ESOC would endorse this modification – let alone publish it.

If ESOC does not endorse this tool, then what this tool basically becomes is a "list of people on ESO we don't like who are shadow-banned". That to me could end up being extremely damaging to AoE3, especially if these bans are made on bad / incomplete criteria.

From the sound of it, the tool sounds like it could be used on either EP or RE. I just don't like the notion that someone gets to decide that a bunch of people on ESO are shadow-banned. It's sketchy as fuck, especially if that list is not public.

The best case scenario would be a public list of ESO names where everyone on that list will NOT get matched with people using the bucket-tool (for lack of a better name). The more people using the bucket-tool, the more some people may be left out of the community. If they're cheaters, fine. But that doesn't even matter. Cheaters have smurf accounts, if they can't get to you on one account, they'll just use another.

If ESOC does not sanction such a list (with perfectly clear criteria / transparency), then the quality of such a list may not be guaranteed. All the more reason to be against it.

Still not a fan. I'm skeptical at this point and would really like to hear more about it.

In case you misunderstand me, I am not saying that the modification cannot be used on EP – only that there would be no reason to do so. It follows that it's not intended for EP.

Apart from that, please stop calling the mod a tool for "shadow banning:" in case it's default, it would be a disclosed but somewhat limited quick-search compatibility; in case it's customized, it would be an undisclosed but virtually unlimited quick-search compatibility.

It certainly is an interesting topic, though.

[iNcog]

Do I look like a guy who makes non volatile topicsh?

Nah just wanted to point this out. I jumped the gun, I get scared, I get nervous like everyone else.

I mean, I think that this is a topic which just deserves a little attention but otherwise, it looks fine.

[zoom]

as far as im concerned i'd appreciate the EP-team taking a stand on whether it does or does not tolerate cheaters. since there r anti-cheat mechanisms in place to prevent identified cheats i'd assume it doesn't tolerate cheating and as a consequence one can argue that some sort of banning system is desireable. once u agree on that u have to look on how such a tool could look like. u brought up concerns about transparency and other difficulties that go with such a tool, which ofc r valid and have to be adressed. if u eventually conlude that there is no appropriate tool to do so then so be it.
since there is no information (at least i dont know of it) how such a tool would actually work it is kinda irrelevant to speculate about it, at least in my opinion. so atm to me the only real question is whether u want ppl using cheats being banned from EP and as previously mentioned i think they should indeed be banned from EP.

Without speaking on the behalf of ESOC staff at all, in my opinion EP should be banning cheats – not cheaters. The latter should only be considered if the former fails. Like I mentioned before (please see my previous post on page 1), I would rather argue that as a consequence banning cheaters becomes not only pointless, but even harmful.

This isn't a matter for the balance team regardless – you should be looking for the site staff's decision for that.

[zoom]

Maybe you should also inform yourself better before you create an unnecessary thread, since buckethead already mentioned in the other thread before that it's targeted for RE patch and not EP

Yeah, um, no. bucket posted three times in that thread it wasn't clear at all that this was just for RE.

[spoiler=spoiler]

Send me a private message who want to join the team that will manage the cheater blacklist.
Im finishing a tool that will block players who are on that list on QS and Lobby.

A player with enough knowledge can change the tool and block players that he does not want play on QS, but I believe it does not go much beyond that (if that is what you mean with "abused")

I did not understand the part " which may as well make it borderline cheating in its own right."
My English is very limited

I will make a special page for cheats accusations.
Any cheats accusation will be deleted without prior notification after this page go online

Actually it is quite simple to edit but I do not give a shit for that for several reasons, one of them:
- Few people have enough knowledge to do it
- Who make this change not will publish it, and even of do, will have little visibility

Anyway this is a small bad effect compared to improvement that can bring.

[/spoiler]

Nor does it being only for RE even matter, since this program can be essentially used on both the RE and EP (I mean there's no way that it's going to block a player from joining your game if you're on RE but it won't on EP). Like it or not, Bucket is associated with ESOC, so him breaking MS's TOS so blatantly may or may not have repercussions on EP/ESOC.

Especially since Bucket explicitly stated that he would make a "cheating accusations page" which I can only assume will be on ESOC (where else would it be?). So this entire thing is basically ESOC sanctioned.

I want to bring that up, as well as the questionable morals associated with what is basically a community pest list, with all the negative things which may be associated with that.

Note how, apart from me explaining it immediately, minimal logic dictates that it's highly unlikely this modification was ever intended for EP, let alone as a release.

Then again several others made the same assumption – even after my post. I suppose there's only so much I can do about it...

[zoom]

Nor does it being only for RE even matter, since this program can be essentially used on both the RE and EP (I mean there's no way that it's going to block a player from joining your game if you're on RE but it won't on EP). Like it or not, Bucket is associated with ESOC, so him breaking MS's TOS so blatantly may or may not have repercussions on EP/ESOC.

Especially since Bucket explicitly stated that he would make a "cheating accusations page" which I can only assume will be on ESOC (where else would it be?). So this entire thing is basically ESOC sanctioned.

I'm not even entirely convinced this will be a TOS-breaking feature.
May I ask which part of the TOS does this blatantly break?

This question is very funny indeed. Suffice to say you may proceed to be entirely convinced it would be.

[knusch]

Without speaking on the behalf of ESOC staff at all, in my opinion EP should be banning cheats – not cheaters. Banning cheaters should only be considered if banning cheats fails. Like I mentioned before (please see my previous post on page 1), I would rather argue that as a consequence banning cheaters becomes not only pointless, but even harmful.

This isn't a matter for the balance team regardless – you should be looking for the site staff's decision for that.

i certainly lack any programming skills to have insight on how anticheat-mechanism work. but i'd assume the measures in place are aimed towards already identified cheats. under that assumption and that "banning cheats, not cheaters" ull always by behind in time - ppl create new cheats and hopefully those get banned after some time. hence, imao stating that EP does not tolerate cheating and acting against it gonna result in a ban of the cheater, is reasonabe and arguable the more consistant way of dealing with the problem

[Rikikipu]

Tbh guys, i can't say more, but you should really trust Buckethead.

[Garja]

I trust him. I don't trust who sends the reports to include in the cheatlist (and also who manages them).

[EAGLEMUT]

I'm not even entirely convinced this will be a TOS-breaking feature.
May I ask which part of the TOS does this blatantly break?

This question is very funny indeed. Suffice to say you may proceed to be entirely convinced it would be.

Then proceed I shall. Thank you, for opening my eyes to the holy truth!

[zoom]

Tbh guys, i can't say more, but you should really trust Buckethead.

Absolutely. I hope you can see how that doesn't discredit several valid points made ITT.

[deleted_user]

I have explained to why I "point traded" to some. and as I said I gain 1 pr from pr 33 to 34.
And to the reason why you said I was major was because i went on a break for awhile and was decay to pr 25.
The reason to why I took a break was because I couldn't find games then when I came back I played 3v3 games with kids on re and I would win and lose 50/50.
So I stayed major for awhile playing 3v3 with them. Before I took my break I was an lt col. So I can understand.
And if you want me to explain to why I "point traded" I can if you want.
No hard feeling ofc

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... lent=&ft=1
76 games. 1 pr really ? You started way before pr 33 btw, sadly elo pr is broken so it's not accurate. I'd be curious about the explanation...
Either way I don't even really care that you point traded, was just saying it's one of the reasons why I thought you were a cheater : I suddenly saw you being a colonel, it was weird, thought you cheated your way to that rank.
It's off topic anyway so I'll stop discussing that here.

wtf? maybe his opponent kept resigning in qs? how can you accuse him hax????

[Mvp618]

I have explained to why I "point traded" to some. and as I said I gain 1 pr from pr 33 to 34.
And to the reason why you said I was major was because i went on a break for awhile and was decay to pr 25.
The reason to why I took a break was because I couldn't find games then when I came back I played 3v3 games with kids on re and I would win and lose 50/50.
So I stayed major for awhile playing 3v3 with them. Before I took my break I was an lt col. So I can understand.
And if you want me to explain to why I "point traded" I can if you want.
No hard feeling ofc

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... lent=&ft=1
76 games. 1 pr really ? You started way before pr 33 btw, sadly elo pr is broken so it's not accurate. I'd be curious about the explanation...
Either way I don't even really care that you point traded, was just saying it's one of the reasons why I thought you were a cheater : I suddenly saw you being a colonel, it was weird, thought you cheated your way to that rank.
It's off topic anyway so I'll stop discussing that here.

wtf? maybe his opponent kept resigning in qs? how can you accuse him hax????

Your Turkish lag is bad enough that its practically cheating.

[deleted_user]

Show hidden quotes

I have explained to why I "point traded" to some. and as I said I gain 1 pr from pr 33 to 34.
And to the reason why you said I was major was because i went on a break for awhile and was decay to pr 25.
The reason to why I took a break was because I couldn't find games then when I came back I played 3v3 games with kids on re and I would win and lose 50/50.
So I stayed major for awhile playing 3v3 with them. Before I took my break I was an lt col. So I can understand.
And if you want me to explain to why I "point traded" I can if you want.
No hard feeling ofc

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... lent=&ft=1
76 games. 1 pr really ? You started way before pr 33 btw, sadly elo pr is broken so it's not accurate. I'd be curious about the explanation...
Either way I don't even really care that you point traded, was just saying it's one of the reasons why I thought you were a cheater : I suddenly saw you being a colonel, it was weird, thought you cheated your way to that rank.
It's off topic anyway so I'll stop discussing that here.

wtf? maybe his opponent kept resigning in qs? how can you accuse him hax????

Your Turkish lag is bad enough that its practically cheating.

lag? I am not using Gayfi temtaionz so I won't able to assist you here

[iNcog]

I trust him. I don't trust who sends the reports to include in the cheatlist (and also who manages them).

Yes, this.

The thing is, this is a good project on paper, but it's opening a can of worms (or Pandora's Box) which previous ESOC policies have kept firmly shut.

Need to make sure that this idea is properly implemented - easy to say, not so easy to do!

[Generator]

Make this the official patch and work on a anticheat system and only then will this EP patch be used at all. The fanpatch team is living in a fantasy world if they think this patch is worth anything outside tournament games where it's mandatory to use. I personally think all games are secretly recorded to the ESOC database to monitor other players gameplay so that the favorite ESOC players can stay in power among a lot of other things so basically it's hard for me to trust it. I'm also paranoid about this thing having keylogger in it as well.

[iNcog]

I heard that ESOC is also behind chemtrails, did you know that?

Pleasantries aside, there is already anti-cheating protection in the EP. :/