Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by deleted_user0 »

Abus do only 50% vs cav also they are very vulnerable vs tc fire. Ur point about iro is exxagerated, and the rush can be easily stalled with some well placed walls. Its not the rush that makes iro op, if they siege ur tc theyre doing stuff wrong, or you are.

U only emphasize exactly what i mean
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by Papist »

"It'snot the rush that makes Iro OP"

I have heard every other skilled player in this thread say otherwise.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

papist wrote:"It''snot the rush that makes Iro OP"

I have heard every other skilled player in this thread say otherwise.


There is rush and timing push. Someone who just all in won''t win vs good players but a 7/8min timing is insane.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by deleted_user0 »

papist wrote:"It''snot the rush that makes Iro OP"

I have heard every other skilled player in this thread say otherwise.



Nope pretty much every high lvl player will tell you rushes will barely ever work. 4k 5v or 600w is not a rush. This is part of why iro is so op. The other reason isthat iro inf is really good without being op, and they have lots of xp to send the ups quite early cuz they dont really need crates for their spam. And ofc free warhut. Take away 4k first and iro is still scary, take away what i mentioned above, even one of them and iro is alot less scarier.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by zoom »

papist wrote:
umeu wrote:I never said you have to play it. But if you dont then you really dont have a clue what you are talking about. Ofc if you dont want to improve thats fine, just play 1v1 or team with veni rules.
It doesnt take an expert to realie that Ottomans have a 46 attack unit with no negative multipliers in age 2. Nor does it take one to realize that Iro can have an army sieging down your tc by the time your civ hits the second age.
In actual actuality, Abus Guns have the exact same multipliers as any other ranged infantry unit in the game ?? only worse.

They do (high) siege damage however, which would be more relevant to the point you are trying to make.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by zoom »

umeu wrote:
papist wrote:"Itsnot the rush that makes Iro OP"

I have heard every other skilled player in this thread say otherwise.

Nope pretty much every high lvl player will tell you rushes will barely ever work. 4k 5v or 600w is not a rush. This is part of why iro is so op. The other reason isthat iro inf is really good without being op, and they have lots of xp to send the ups quite early cuz they dont really need crates for their spam. And ofc free warhut. Take away 4k first and iro is still scary, take away what i mentioned above, even one of them and iro is alot less scarier.
The mentioned shipment order can absolutely be a rush, depending on how you actually play. It cannot be an all-in, however...
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

zoom wrote:
umeu wrote:Nope pretty much every high lvl player will tell you rushes will barely ever work. 4k 5v or 600w is not a rush. This is part of why iro is so op. The other reason isthat iro inf is really good without being op, and they have lots of xp to send the ups quite early cuz they dont really need crates for their spam. And ofc free warhut. Take away 4k first and iro is still scary, take away what i mentioned above, even one of them and iro is alot less scarier.
The mentioned shipment order can absolutely be a rush, depending on how you actually play. It cannot be an all-in, however...

All in=rush.
If you send 5v it isnt a rush even if it is a fast timing.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by deleted_user0 »

Nah its not true, all in isnt a rush, though most rushes if not all are all ins.

I dont consider it a rush because it doesnt really have a follow up, 4k 7aenna with BB i would call a rush. When russia goes 5 cossack 5 musk and attacks to do as much dmg as they can with early units, its not a rush ic he then falls back to do eco. If he keeps pumping units into ur base without letting pressure go its a rush.

But ye u can turn 4k 5v into a rush by sending BB early and keeping in his base
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by zoom »

diarouga wrote:
zoom wrote:The mentioned shipment order can absolutely be a rush, depending on how you actually play. It cannot be an all-in, however...
All in=rush.
If you send 5v it isnt a rush even if it is a fast timing.
No. Rush means early attack. It typically involves emphasizing military early on, but is far from necessarily an all-in.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by Papist »

There are no formal parameters for a "rush", it is simply defined as being a fast attack, most likely intended to throw one's opponent off-balance in the early stages of the game. It doesn't matter what your card order is, all that matters is your timing and the force you bring to bear during that time (i.e. this is why 2 uhlans is not a "rush). Iroquois are unique in that a reasonably boomy build does not increase the time they need to train an army.

And all zoom said, an all in need not be a rush. A player may simply be using a rush to slow you down while booming in the back of it.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by deleted_user0 »

A rush is a fast attack involving a large amount of units, iro 4k is annoying but the rush is more easily defended by most civs than other options iro have available.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by adderbrain5 »

one reason that iroqois SHOULD be considered OP but is not because most people don't know this:


a max population of Iroqois mantlets is literaly THE STRONGEST max pop army in the entire game possible. There is literally not a single max pop army in the game that can beat this. Thank god it is almost imposible in rush because they are so expensive. If you want to test this yourself, a max pop of iroqois mantlets is 120 mantlets with siege discipline card. Pit that against any other max pop army you want in the editor. You will not find one that can beat it. Not 40 gendarme, not 150 dutch halb, not arrow knights, or canon or hand mortar or anything.
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by rsy »

adderbrain5 wrote:Thank god it is almost impossible in rush because they are so expensive
I wanna try an otto max grt bombard vs that (going with the impossible army thing)
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Why is Iroquois considered so overpowered?

Post by adderbrain5 »

rsy wrote:
adderbrain5 wrote:Thank god it is almost impossible in rush because they are so expensive
I wanna try an otto max grt bombard vs that (going with the impossible army thing)
well that would be like 15 bombards, wouldnt win.

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