Measuring PR by Civ

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Serbia sirmusket
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Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sirmusket »

Decided to make this little thread because I came upon this idea when casting with @site the other day, so I wanted to ask, what if the PR rank was measured not only as a whole, but also by your civilisation rank, what I mean by this, there could be a PR28 say, and a PR29, both players seem relatively equal rank, however for example the PR29 player only plays Russia, 98% of the time, whilst the PR28 player has a deep civ pool consisting of 5+ civilisations, so what player is really better then? sure you could argue that the PR29's Russia would be able to take out any of the PR28's guys civ's but in a bo3/bo5 where you cannot repeat civilisations until the middle of the series, the lower rank player would actually have an advantage. So I wonder, what if JP Community, or a different PR ranking system, included the players civilisation PR ordered from best-> worst, would this change how players are viewed, and would it give other players more of an insight to the player and find their weak spots etc.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by __Uhlan__ »

was this the day with me and callen? :D
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by __Uhlan__ »

In all seriousness though seems like a cool idea, but how could you implement this, someone would have 14 different ranks & then every civ has it's fair mu's and unfair mu's and then certain maps favoring certain civs just seems like there is no way to accurately measure this.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sirmusket »

__Uhlan__ wrote:In all seriousness though seems like a cool idea, but how could you implement this, someone would have 14 different ranks & then every civ has it's fair mu's and unfair mu's and then certain maps favoring certain civs just seems like there is no way to accurately measure this.

It doesn't matter if there is unfair MU unfair Maps because that effects every civ in a way, it could be measured imo by just how well you do with that civ, how many matches you win, and the skill level of the opponent you are beating, sure someone plays Port Vs Japan on a no TP map and high hunt map and loses 20 times to Japan as Port, it isn't an accurate measurement but I still think it could be done.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by __Uhlan__ »

sirmusket wrote:
__Uhlan__ wrote:In all seriousness though seems like a cool idea, but how could you implement this, someone would have 14 different ranks & then every civ has it's fair mu's and unfair mu's and then certain maps favoring certain civs just seems like there is no way to accurately measure this.

It doesn't matter if there is unfair MU unfair Maps because that effects every civ in a way, it could be measured imo by just how well you do with that civ, how many matches you win, and the skill level of the opponent you are beating, sure someone plays Port Vs Japan on a no TP map and high hunt map and loses 20 times to Japan as Port, it isn't an accurate measurement but I still think it could be done.


Yes could be done of course, but my India could be shit & if I 100% quick searched with it on relatively low hunt maps I could be close to a 80% winrate with that civ but then a 50% winrate with it on fair esoc maps. The ratings would just be so skewed that I don't think it would mean much.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by site »

Yeah, absolutely. My best civ could be PR 30, and the rest PR 18, to see a players PR for specific civilizations would be interesting. @Octanium is this a feasible thing to make? You're a bit wiser in that stuff.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sdsanft »

So to clarify you get a seperate pr rating for each of the different civs?
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sirmusket »

sdsanft wrote:So to clarify you get a seperate pr rating for each of the different civs?

Just like it is now on JP , team 1v1 overall, but additionally perhaps inf player details it has all your civs that you have played and PR for that civ based on performance.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sdsanft »

Honestly, wouldn't be that hard. If we take ports for example, you just compare the winning percentage of a player using ports vs another player of same overall pr also playing ports. If you want you could also factor specific MUs and maps too. all in all wouldnt be super hard to take into account civ balance @__Uhlan__
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sirmusket »

sdsanft wrote:Honestly, wouldn't be that hard. If we take ports for example, you just compare the winning percentage of a player using ports vs another player of same overall pr also playing ports. If you want you could also factor specific MUs and maps too. all in all wouldnt be super hard to take into account civ balance @__Uhlan__

Would be hard, but nothing is impossible, before JP community was greated we might of thought calculated all the ELO for each player would have been very hard, and look where we are now
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sdsanft »

sirmusket wrote:
sdsanft wrote:Honestly, wouldn't be that hard. If we take ports for example, you just compare the winning percentage of a player using ports vs another player of same overall pr also playing ports. If you want you could also factor specific MUs and maps too. all in all wouldnt be super hard to take into account civ balance @__Uhlan__

Would be hard, but nothing is impossible, before JP community was greated we might of thought calculated all the ELO for each player would have been very hard, and look where we are now

yes, exactly my point, obviously it would take time and effort but it is definitely very achievable if someone actually took the time to do it.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by Ashvin »

would this change how players are viewed

Yep, it would divide players by civ and the player with most number of high PR would be called the best one.

would it give other players more of an insight to the player and find their weak spots etc

Yes, if the player thinks smartly he can lure his opponent to play a civ which can be hard-countered by a civ he plays. Or he can practice with a civ that can counter his opponent favorite civ.

site wrote:Is this a feasible thing to make?

Yeah it is feasible to make it since the data stored has an identification as civ_id (unique number assigned to civ), with a formula of our own/ or same that of jpcomm/agecomm a custom system can be made which can generate PR's for different civs.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by Ashvin »

__Uhlan__ wrote:every civ has it's fair mu's and unfair mu's and then certain maps favoring certain civs just seems like there is no way to accurately measure this.


If you win an unfavorable match you will be rewarded with PR accordingly so maybe it wouldn't be as broken as you think.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

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Post by Gendarme »

site wrote:My best civ could be PR 30, and the rest PR 18

Nope.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by sirmusket »

Gendarme wrote:
site wrote:My best civ could be PR 30, and the rest PR 18

Nope.

It's a joke..
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by drsingh »

It needs to be called something different (CR- civ rating?). The original pr system need to be left untouched. It won't be possible to make an average to get it, like it is with elo.

It could be calculated similarly to pr but separately for each civ and taking more in to account overall win rates of a specific matchup.

Eg for a civ x - winning its good matchup gives less CR than a mirror. And winning a difficult matchup gives more CR than a mirror.
Probably if it is not too complex add a map factor too. Based on win rates of a civ on a map.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by Gendarme »

sirmusket wrote:
Gendarme wrote:
site wrote:My best civ could be PR 30, and the rest PR 18

Nope.

It's a joke..

Nope.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by deleted_user0 »

drsingh wrote:It needs to be called something different (CR- civ rating?). The original pr system need to be left untouched. It won't be possible to make an average to get it, like it is with elo.

It could be calculated similarly to pr but separately for each civ and taking more in to account overall win rates of a specific matchup.

Eg for a civ x - winning its good matchup gives less CR than a mirror. And winning a difficult matchup gives more CR than a mirror.
Probably if it is not too complex add a map factor too. Based on win rates of a civ on a map.


Not complicated, but highly subjective
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

This has no sense to me. All sc2 players do play 1 race and that doesn't mean they're worse than top aoe3 players who can play almost any civ. Irish was main French and he was able to switch port and Dutch for tourney. It's not relevant how many civs you do play
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by britishmusketeer »

In sc2 they recently implemented a system where you have a different elo for each race. However in aoe3 the civs are too similar imo to have a separate rank for each.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by drsingh »

True for european civs. Not so much for native and asian civs. And still people do have a main civ and some civ they are terrible at.

Those ppl who play only one civ have more pr than a same skilled player trying out more civ out of his comfort zone imo.
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by tedere12 »

No because it will be harder to be a noob basher
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Re: Measuring PR by Civ

Post by milku3459 »

I like this idea and the fact that the complicated ELO system we use has no more JP community users (except boneng).
Also it flatters me to think that my PR is not real and it's possible to have PR 50 with my favourite civ. PR IS BROKEN YALL

But seriously I like it. It provides an easy way to keep track of things you ought to practice and could lead to some very interesting tournament mind games.

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