Ranged Anti Cav?

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Great Britain Jeedos
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Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by Jeedos »

A couple of questions (for those who are better game knowledge'd than myself) for the community:

1) What are the most efficient anti cav units
2) What are the pros / cons / main differences of Goons vs. Cav Archers
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Tonga sdsanft
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

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Post by sdsanft »

Goons are better for kiting, CA are better for bodyblocking and standing battles.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

1) Doppelsoldners by far
2) Goons are better with kiting, or other ranged units (except skirms). Due to firing mech and ranged resistance.

Cav archers are better with tanking. This is due to large HP, and melee resistane, also rate of fire.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by deleted_user0 »

doppels arent ranged.

anyway, most efficient normal anti cav units are probably zamburaks or bow riders. all ranged anti cav units are quite close in how good they are though, with the sole exception of keshiks. but theyre not nearly as bad as steppe riders.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by Jaeger »

ERK might be the best for fighting, but aren't as fast.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by deleted_user0 »

ah yea, i forgot about them, they are probably best. i guess it goes erk > br > zamburak

though zambs are only good vs cav, while most other goons are good vs other units too
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by fei123456 »

Personally i think cav archer>dragoon.
If french can train both of them, i would go cav archer.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

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Post by yurashic »

Make the units that your civilization can make. It does not matter what is better if you can't make these units.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by sdsanft »

Couprider wrote:Personally i think cav archer>dragoon.
If french can train both of them, i would go cav archer.

It depends. If you only have skirms goons are better, but with cuirs skirms and falcs CA are better.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by site »

umeu wrote:doppels arent ranged.

anyway, most efficient normal anti cav units are probably zamburaks or bow riders. all ranged anti cav units are quite close in how good they are though, with the sole exception of keshiks. but theyre not nearly as bad as steppe riders.


I think dopples hand attack should be changed to ranged attack. And give them 22 range.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

just to note about CA vs Goons. CA 1.5 rate of fire (ROF) and goons have a 3.0 ROF. so even though a CA seems weaker at doing about 33 base damage, it is actually doing more damage with successive faster firing, however this is mitigated with goons ability to fast fire with kiting.

Without kiting though a Hussar can close the gap to kill a goon due to the ROF of hand attack being 1.5 and hussar having extra HP. Though a CA will win in a heads up fight
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by sirmusket »

zamb/goon/CA, goon/zamb I think more cost effective and easy to kite, you can't kite well with CA but they do have melee resist, so you can stand and shoot, whilst with goon/zamb you need to kite because they don't have melee resist. Ruyters are pretty OP too, because you can get a lot fast, but they arent nearly as good as goon/zamb/CA, they are really cheap tho
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by fei123456 »

Cav archer has 265 base hp while goon has 200 only. So even against range fire, they have about the same hp, but cav archer is 2 times harder to kill by melee damage.
Also, goon costs 90f90g while cav archer costs only 100f60g.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by forgrin »

CA is a good unit in everything but Atk animation, which is unfortunately one of the few things you actually need in a goon unit. A zamb is good because it's pretty much a goon whittled down to the few stats needed to exceed vs cav (speed, range, good animation, multiplier) while CA has extraneous shit like extra HP and RoF instead, making it less effective in straight up kiting situations.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

the range resist offers a slight bonus vs ranged attack but not nearly as good as a melee bonus does with more HP.

for instance an attack of 25 to a CA archers takes 11 shots to kill. but vs a goon takes 12 shots to kill.

So really its hard to know why people think CA are so much worse than goons.
Just the way people play by kiting units back I guess that is so annoying.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by forgrin »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:the range resist offers a slight bonus vs ranged attack but not nearly as good as a melee bonus does with more HP.

for instance an attack of 25 to a CA archers takes 11 shots to kill. but vs a goon takes 12 shots to kill.

So really its hard to know why people think CA are so much worse than goons.
Just the way people play by kiting units back I guess that is so annoying.


It's being able to kite. Kiting expensive cav units is incredibly cost effective and the main reason that goon style units are good, otherwise we'd just use halbs since they beat hand cav in straight up combat much better. The fact that CA can't do this nearly as well is actually a massive issue, because it means they're not nearly as cost effective as other goon units.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by evilcheadar »

See my TOTW about cav archers for the truth
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by Darwin_ »

ERK are very good once you send the card that gives them more range. They can kite a lot better with it.

I think that age 3 bow rider are also very good and under-rated. They just get so stacked with upgrades.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

I wonder how Brit play would look if they got CA instead of goons. Since LB do so well when you just leave them alone if brit had a CA they could just plant in place and take fight and do heavy damage instead of having to kite their whole army back every time a cav push came in.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

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Post by sdsanft »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:I wonder how Brit play would look if they got CA instead of goons. Since LB do so well when you just leave them alone if brit had a CA they could just plant in place and take fight and do heavy damage instead of having to kite their whole army back every time a cav push came in.

Yes, since lb don't kite CA definitely work better. I think that why a lot of brits prefer musk, even in age 3
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by lemmings121 »

Cav archer is very underated sometimes, it just requires a diferent micro them goons.. istead of kiting forever, you need to position well and leave them be, like lbs. And their dps is very good. Works well with strells, that also cant kite like skirms.

Also, erk is great, but it rarelly see the light of the day (aztec ff?)
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by momuuu »

The animation makes cav archers worse than goons for sure, but not by that much I think. Only civ that'd prefer cav archers is british I think.

Also keshiks (chinese ranged cav) and yabusame (japan ranged cav) arent too good. Keshiks just suck and yabusame are mostly good against artillery. War wagons are worse than other ranged cav, but still better than doppelsoldners. As ottoman janisarries fit the playstyle better than cav archers, probably the only civ where thats the case. I guess as spain rodeleros can compete with goons.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by sirmusket »

Fusiliers are good @IAmSoldieR not sure how they do vs spahi tho :hehe:
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by Darwin_ »

Cav archers are still relatively cost/pop inefficient. If they were 1 pop or cost a little less they would be usable.
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Re: Ranged Anti Cav?

Post by momuuu »

Darwin_ wrote:Cav archers are still relatively cost/pop inefficient. If they were 1 pop or cost a little less they would be usable.

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