Using Map Polls instead of Map Pools in competitive games // Poll and Discussion

[site]

Yes, I will run a second poll after a few days of this being up taking the suggestions into consideration and seeing if perhaps I can please 75% of the people.

[aligator92]

For a higher level event maps should be pre determined in a way Raphael is proposing. For the reasons Jerom mentioned.
For an event at the mid levels like the current one I think voting is fine since on this level there is a lot more randomness to the games anyway. Players make much more mistakes. So maps and balance dont have such a drastic impact. But it should also be kinda limited like giving only 5 maps every poll to prevent a series being played on Indonesia, Thar, Cascade or High Plaines, Klondike, Tibet. Instead do something like:
Game 1: Arkansas, Kamchatka, Arizona
Game 2: Bengal, Cascade, Thar
Game 3: Hudsen, Baja, Manchuria
Game 4: Indonesia, Bonnie, is there another goofy map?
Game 5: Klondike, High Plaines, Tibet

[site]

For a higher level event maps should be pre determined in a way Raphael is proposing. For the reasons Jerom mentioned.
For an event at the mid levels like the current one I think voting is fine since on this level there is a lot more randomness to the games anyway. Players make much more mistakes. So maps and balance dont have such a drastic impact. But it should also be kinda limited like giving only 5 maps every poll to prevent a series being played on Indonesia, Thar, Cascade or High Plaines, Klondike, Tibet. Instead do something like:
Game 1: Arkansas, Kamchatka, Arizona
Game 2: Bengal, Cascade, Thar
Game 3: Hudsen, Baja, Manchuria
Game 4: Indonesia, Bonnie, is there another goofy map?
Game 5: Klondike, High Plaines, Tibet

I like this extremely limited approach. It allows for audience choice but still should keep pro players from feeling cheated.

[__Uhlan__]

For a higher level event maps should be pre determined in a way Raphael is proposing. For the reasons Jerom mentioned.
For an event at the mid levels like the current one I think voting is fine since on this level there is a lot more randomness to the games anyway. Players make much more mistakes. So maps and balance dont have such a drastic impact. But it should also be kinda limited like giving only 5 maps every poll to prevent a series being played on Indonesia, Thar, Cascade or High Plaines, Klondike, Tibet. Instead do something like:
Game 1: Arkansas, Kamchatka, Arizona
Game 2: Bengal, Cascade, Thar
Game 3: Hudsen, Baja, Manchuria
Game 4: Indonesia, Bonnie, is there another goofy map?
Game 5: Klondike, High Plaines, Tibet

I like this extremely limited approach. It allows for audience choice but still should keep pro players from feeling cheated.

This is for sure the best between the 2 worlds. I vote for this!!

[sdsanft]

For a higher level event maps should be pre determined in a way Raphael is proposing. For the reasons Jerom mentioned.
For an event at the mid levels like the current one I think voting is fine since on this level there is a lot more randomness to the games anyway. Players make much more mistakes. So maps and balance dont have such a drastic impact. But it should also be kinda limited like giving only 5 maps every poll to prevent a series being played on Indonesia, Thar, Cascade or High Plaines, Klondike, Tibet. Instead do something like:
Game 1: Arkansas, Kamchatka, Arizona
Game 2: Bengal, Cascade, Thar
Game 3: Hudsen, Baja, Manchuria
Game 4: Indonesia, Bonnie, is there another goofy map?
Game 5: Klondike, High Plaines, Tibet

I like this extremely limited approach. It allows for audience choice but still should keep pro players from feeling cheated.

I dont know if it came off this way but this is the same general idea I wss trying to convey. I think purely from an audience POV it will still be fun (maybe more fun actually) but I can imagine that more serious competitors will like it as well. I'd say just make sure enough thought is I'd put into each individual map pool so that even in the most extreme voting situations, the competition will still be fair.

[site]

Let's see about making a good fair collection of map pools @sdsanft

notification

[pecelot]

For a higher level event maps should be pre determined in a way Raphael is proposing. For the reasons Jerom mentioned.
For an event at the mid levels like the current one I think voting is fine since on this level there is a lot more randomness to the games anyway. Players make much more mistakes. So maps and balance dont have such a drastic impact. But it should also be kinda limited like giving only 5 maps every poll to prevent a series being played on Indonesia, Thar, Cascade or High Plaines, Klondike, Tibet. Instead do something like:
Game 1: Arkansas, Kamchatka, Arizona
Game 2: Bengal, Cascade, Thar
Game 3: Hudsen, Baja, Manchuria
Game 4: Indonesia, Bonnie, is there another goofy map?
Game 5: Klondike, High Plaines, Tibet

I like this extremely limited approach. It allows for audience choice but still should keep pro players from feeling cheated.

I dont know if it came off this way but this is the same general idea I wss trying to convey.

Me too, me too!

[momuuu]

Honestly from an audience pov I care much more about fixed map pools. The way h2o used india's elephant strat against mongos china was really only a possibility because he knew what the mappool had to offer and thus knew that mongo was going to pick china on that map and knew that that map offered enough yaks (and thus xp) for his strat to be viable. Aoe3 maps actually have a huge influence on what works and what doesnt, and being able to prepare for maps makes it just that much more interesting. The more the game is randomized, the more people will just opt for generic build orders.

[Akechi_Mitsuhide]

Honestly from an audience pov I care much more about fixed map pools. The way h2o used india's elephant strat against mongos china was really only a possibility because he knew what the mappool had to offer and thus knew that mongo was going to pick china on that map and knew that that map offered enough yaks (and thus xp) for his strat to be viable. Aoe3 maps actually have a huge influence on what works and what doesnt, and being able to prepare for maps makes it just that much more interesting. The more the game is randomized, the more people will just opt for generic build orders.

That's a really important thing and absolutely right.

[pecelot]

The most concerning matter then is definitely the choice between fun, unusualness and viewers' engagement and competitiveness. Site's Invitational is a great opportunity to try such things out, so I'd again vote for a hybrid between two antagonistic systems, like explained above, which is still a fairly mild solution.

[site]

I think with enough optimization having polls between three maps of the same category would work. We just need to define the categories.

[oxaloacetate]

The most concerning matter then is definitely the choice between fun, unusualness and viewers' engagement and competitiveness. Site's Invitational is a great opportunity to try such things out, so I'd again vote for a hybrid between two antagonistic systems, like explained above, which is still a fairly mild solution.

In another hybrid the voting might take place at the forums rather than 'live'. This would ensure both community activation and the players would know in advance what map exactly to be featured.

[macacoalbino]

Ceylon will be my vote everytime