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Norway iwillspankyou
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10 Jan 2017, 13:44

@r4go said:
It Is a game where 80% has a elo or pr too hight for their skills.



Is that really so, and why is that :?: I only ask cos its news to me and Im curious to know the reasons why :unsure:
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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10 Jan 2017, 13:48

iwillspankyou wrote:@r4go said:
It Is a game where 80% has a elo or pr too hight for their skills.



Is that really so, and why is that :?: I only ask cos its news to me and Im curious to know the reasons why :unsure:


yea it's not true lol.
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Netherlands Jerom
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10 Jan 2017, 14:03

umeu wrote:you are talking bs. you have obviously improved. perhaps not your apm or "skill" but you know much more about the game, and this is mostly a knowledge game.

I can do an off civ yolo build that I haven't done before and beat ranks that I couldn't beat before. Ive played so little I find it hard to imagine I improved lots tbh.

Less players just leads to a less skilled community, which is fine. Overall people have gotten better in the sense that the meta has been figured out more and that there's much more written strategies/videos out there that help you improve, but I feel like 2010 jerom would've gotten to this level in less than a month.

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"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Norway iwillspankyou
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10 Jan 2017, 14:07

__Uhlan__ wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:@r4go said:
It Is a game where 80% has a elo or pr too hight for their skills.



Is that really so, and why is that :?: I only ask cos its news to me and Im curious to know the reasons why :unsure:


yea it's not true lol.


I guess it could be true at top level - wouldnt know cos I have never played as such!
But Imo there are very many really good players who know the game/meta better than "in the old days" So - I would think that in the range from corporal - Msergent - the skill level has gone up - SUBSTANTIONALLY. This is also where the bulk of players are :!:
I do not have any "hard facts" to support this though :!:
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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10 Jan 2017, 14:20

iwillspankyou wrote:
__Uhlan__ wrote:
Show hidden quotes


yea it's not true lol.


I guess it could be true at top level - wouldnt know cos I have never played as such!
But Imo there are very many really good players who know the game/meta better than "in the old days" So - I would think that in the range from corporal - Msergent - the skill level has gone up - SUBSTANTIONALLY. This is also where the bulk of players are :!:
I do not have any "hard facts" to support this though :!:


It's simple. When things like twitch/YouTube exists lower level ranks simply improve. Now ANYONE in the world can watch a H2O, or any other pros rec in seconds off of YouTube. You can also watches veni's tips and tricks. You also now have Aiz's UI, which allows us to truly breakdown a record game, and clearly see build order, vill distribution, macro, timings etc. the game is just easier to learn now. I've seen 2nd lts and lower using vill defense, not wasting units, executing standard build orders but none the less it's still a build order and not playing randomly and hoping you win. Now how would a 2nd lt play like this? Hmm idk maybe watching the smackdowns learning buildorders, watching veni's tips and tricks? None of this was possible before and I'd imagine it was a lot harder to improve. It's just not comparable at all. Skill isn't down, PR is down becuase at a higher level there is just simply not many higher levels to play with a decent rank. So it's more like at pr35+ you lose one game, and you need to win the next 3-5 games to makeup all of the PR/ELO you lost in most cases.
Great Britain Hazza54321
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10 Jan 2017, 14:23

__Uhlan__ wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
Show hidden quotes


I guess it could be true at top level - wouldnt know cos I have never played as such!
But Imo there are very many really good players who know the game/meta better than "in the old days" So - I would think that in the range from corporal - Msergent - the skill level has gone up - SUBSTANTIONALLY. This is also where the bulk of players are :!:
I do not have any "hard facts" to support this though :!:


It's simple. When things like twitch/YouTube exists lower level ranks simply improve. Now ANYONE in the world can watch a H2O, or any other pros rec in seconds off of YouTube. You can also watches veni's tips and tricks. You also now have Aiz's UI, which allows us to truly breakdown a record game, and clearly see build order, vill distribution, macro, timings etc. the game is just easier to learn now. I've seen 2nd lts and lower using vill defense, not wasting units, executing standard build orders but none the less it's still a build order and not playing randomly and hoping you win. Now how would a 2nd lt play like this? Hmm idk maybe watching the smackdowns learning buildorders, watching veni's tips and tricks? None of this was possible before and I'd imagine it was a lot harder to improve. It's just not comparable at all. Skill isn't down, PR is down becuase at a higher level there is just simply not many higher levels to play with a decent rank. So it's more like at pr35+ you lose one game, and you need to win the next 3-5 games to makeup all of the PR/ELO you lost in most cases.

2nd lts op
Venividivici_w: i heard h20 signed up last minute. Prob waited for roby not signing up so he wouldnt get smashed again

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Norway iwillspankyou
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10 Jan 2017, 14:29

guess that is the reason so many top players insist on playing non-rated games @__Uhlan__ :lol: :lol:
Skill isn't down, PR is down becuase at a higher level there is just simply not many higher levels to play with a decent rank. So it's more like at pr35+ you lose one game, and you need to win the next 3-5 games to makeup all of the PR/ELO you lost in most cases.
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Canada _NiceKING_
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10 Jan 2017, 14:33

Microsoft is aware of the problem. They've been trying to have these things moved to their new site, so this may be related to that.

ImageImage

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United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
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10 Jan 2017, 14:53

giveuanxiety wrote:ya voodoo is definitely right. and to the guy saying I lost to pr 32's like 7 years ago, thats true but I have become a much better rts player since then. back in the day when aoe3 first started declining people like my brother soldier were ranked major general. and now there is basically no legit major generals today. and exactly what voodoo said.


You were like 12-14 then too. Yeah the 35 pool of today is the major general pool. The hand full of people who can beat those guys a bit more often and get brig are luit general. Then the few top players we have would be general.

Since our last wave of ELO decline max ratings are down another 200 points. Seems impossible to hit 2.7k and even nearly impossible to get 2.6 now.
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United States of America giveuanxiety
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10 Jan 2017, 15:07

ya agree, also look at the pk tournament from 3 years ago. Garja vs Boneng in the finals. Since the esoc has started both of those players were lucky to maybe make the top 8 in any tournament since. (no offense to them, their great players) Since esoc has started many good players have returned and competition has picked up since 3 years ago. Also, it is human nature to look back at things in the past and put those things on a pedestal, when in reality they were not as great as you remember them.
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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10 Jan 2017, 15:30

You also have to take into consideration people cheating/dropping and people losing PR/ELO to these guys which keeps the overall pool of PR lower then it could/should be.
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New Zealand zoom
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10 Jan 2017, 15:47

VooDoo_BoSs wrote:
zoom wrote:
giveuanxiety wrote:A pr 32 is definitely better than a pr 32 back in the day. And there is also more tournaments in aoe3 now then there ever has been. Definitely wouldn't say the game is dead. Tbh it is probably real close to its best state ever.
In some ways, what you're saying has a lot of truth to it. In others, it's rather delusional. Mainly, official support and level of skill are at an all-time low, I'd say.


Not true at all. The more players, the more ratings are inflated by definition (more total points in the system changing hands with a larger base of low-ranked players submitting PR).

Think about how common PRs in the 40+ were back in the day. These days there are only a handful. In all honesty, a PR 26 plays as well as a PR34 from ~2010.
It's interesting, how you tell me that what I'm saying is "not true at all", before proceeding to explain something completely irrelevant to what I said.

I repeat: the absolute skill of players is at or about an all-time low.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
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Australia Gear_Head
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10 Jan 2017, 16:04

_NiceKING_ wrote:Microsoft is aware of the problem. They've been trying to have these things moved to their new site, so this may be related to that.


If it is related to that, the ELO site will therefore have to parse data from the new site, undoubtedly. Is the admin of that site still active?
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United States of America giveuanxiety
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10 Jan 2017, 16:11

I repeat: the absolute skill of players is at or about an all-time low.

lol thats not true. LIke I said exactly 3 years ago to the month the pk clan hosted a tournament where the final was boneng vs garja, now in recent tournaments both of those players have a difficult time making it to the top 8 in a tournament. That is a fact look at tournament results. It's a fact there is more competition now than 3 years ago, you cannot even debate it.
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Tuvalu gibson
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10 Jan 2017, 16:14

giveuanxiety wrote:
I repeat: the absolute skill of players is at or about an all-time low.

lol thats not true. LIke I said exactly 3 years ago to the month the pk clan hosted a tournament where the final was boneng vs garja, now in recent tournaments both of those players have a difficult time making it to the top 8 in a tournament. That is a fact look at tournament results. It's a fact there is more competition now than 3 years ago, you cannot even debate it.
Although as mentioned in a post since removed, that was a tournament in which both h20 and goodspeed left early due to issues with the tournament admins, and its not too far fetched to think that perhaps they would have been in the finals if they had continued on.
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United States of America giveuanxiety
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10 Jan 2017, 16:14

In the esoc 2015 winter tournament boneng and garja played each other in the R0 16, went from being in a finals match to a RO 16 match.

either way a semifinals compared to a Ro16
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No Flag umeu
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Posts: 6832

10 Jan 2017, 16:49

really these examples prove nothing, because you are assuming that the level of play displayed by these players stayed consistent over that time, while it clear did not.
I kissed a girl and I liked it
Popped her cherry with my chapstick
I kissed a girl just to try it
I hope my wife don't mind it
It felt so wrong, it felt so right
Don't mean I'm in love tonight
I kissed a girl and I liked it
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Canada _NiceKING_
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10 Jan 2017, 17:09

ESO stats have been fixed on agecom. However, new games are still not getting uploaded.
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United States of America giveuanxiety
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10 Jan 2017, 17:12

lol umeu either way. Going into the pk tournament garja and boneng were what probably a #4 and 5 seed at worst in the tournament. and even at their best they would be lucky to be in the top 10 seed for current tournaments.
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No Flag r4go
Howdah
Posts: 1269

10 Jan 2017, 17:14

iwillspankyou wrote:
__Uhlan__ wrote:
Show hidden quotes


yea it's not true lol.


I guess it could be true at top level - wouldnt know cos I have never played as such!
But Imo there are very many really good players who know the game/meta better than "in the old days" So - I would think that in the range from corporal - Msergent - the skill level has gone up - SUBSTANTIONALLY. This is also where the bulk of players are :!:
I do not have any "hard facts" to support this though :!:

it is true dude. I'm agree whit rapha that the top players of now, and there are 2-4 not more, can be good at the same lavel when age was active (2005-9). Now i'm agree that whit twitch and youtube all can know builds and strategy, this is a very big help you can have in this meta. But knowing builds or strategy doesn't make you pro. there are players very expert about thoery but who are serg major or lt max. There is a big division to know builds and have the hand to play op. In age3 skills aren't only i know the build, i know a bit the micro, i know the cards and i win. You need fast hands and fast mind also. To make you an example : i look a lot or team games at hight levels or major up and i see a lot of mistakes, horrible mistakes, (yes it's easy to speak when u are playing, i know and i'm agree) mistakes that maybe i hope :uglylol: ) i don't do but i don't have the hands anymore, i'm very slow now, and find really hard at 29 years old after 8-10 hours of working follow the game in the right way. This means u are expert enought but you don't have the hands.
What i want tell you is that in old meta, there was moneys, age was new, and all the videogamers that played to be competitive was there or in sc1 (age3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sc1). There was more people, more talent, more skills. What i've to admit that now for who is a pro is really hard to rank up and finds games. But if i speak in general, well you can get pr 32 whit skills that in the old meta was good to be a 27-28. I've played this game since he was online and this is my opinion about my experience
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No Flag r4go
Howdah
Posts: 1269

10 Jan 2017, 17:16

giveuanxiety wrote:
I repeat: the absolute skill of players is at or about an all-time low.

lol thats not true. LIke I said exactly 3 years ago to the month the pk clan hosted a tournament where the final was boneng vs garja, now in recent tournaments both of those players have a difficult time making it to the top 8 in a tournament. That is a fact look at tournament results. It's a fact there is more competition now than 3 years ago, you cannot even debate it.

umhh garja was more active, young at that time. Garja from that day as decay.
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Germany lordraphael
Howdah
Posts: 1750

10 Jan 2017, 17:35

r4go wrote:
giveuanxiety wrote:
I repeat: the absolute skill of players is at or about an all-time low.

lol thats not true. LIke I said exactly 3 years ago to the month the pk clan hosted a tournament where the final was boneng vs garja, now in recent tournaments both of those players have a difficult time making it to the top 8 in a tournament. That is a fact look at tournament results. It's a fact there is more competition now than 3 years ago, you cannot even debate it.

umhh garja was more active, young at that time. Garja from that day as decay.

thats a poor excuse. I dont think garja was better than he is now honestly. Also i dont think that players really get worse the older they get. Maybe thats the case if youre like older than 30 but im quite sure that players skills dont decrease in their 20s.
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 6832

10 Jan 2017, 17:44

he was definitely better at the time. h2o was ofc the best and he was going to win the tournament after he eliminated his only real competitor which was inshape nagayumi. But Garja was actually consistently taking games off h2o at the time, in practice and real games too. Now he's getting sweeped 5-0 by ryan. And ryan wasnt even at his peak now, while I he was definitely gearing up for his peak during pk4. He played so many games at that time. Definitely much more than he did for these last 2 tournaments.
I kissed a girl and I liked it
Popped her cherry with my chapstick
I kissed a girl just to try it
I hope my wife don't mind it
It felt so wrong, it felt so right
Don't mean I'm in love tonight
I kissed a girl and I liked it
I liked it
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United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
Posts: 2994

10 Jan 2017, 18:37

My view is that skill goes down over time but that rating decay also goes down faster at the absolute top. Meaning sure I'm only able to get pr 41 now but I am surely pr 47+ still.

I don't think I'm as good as I was when I played hours a day though.

Basically I'm just riding my own decay against the communities to remain on top :D
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No Flag Zutazuta
Dragoon
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Posts: 334

10 Jan 2017, 19:41

_H2O wrote:I am surely pr 47+ still.


General Ryxo reporting for duty.

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