Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by deleted_user »

bows are countering against hussars which they shouldn't and hotkeys are not really good at all but still nilla is better for his legendary nilla graphics and musics <3
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by milku3459 »

xbows are better on nilla vs everything except HI
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by kami_ryu »

Sounds like Vanilla has less civ variety, less good unit balance and overall worse maps. Glad I'm a TAD guy. I don't understand why you would skip out on 6 cool civs and a bunch of other cool stuff.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Btw can someone tell me why the normal expansion of aoe3 is called as "Vanilla"?
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

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Post by sc »

Challenger_Marco wrote:Btw can someone tell me why the normal expansion of aoe3 is called as "Vanilla"?

All original versions of games are referred to as vanilla, not just aoe3. vanilla civ, vanilla warcraft etc etc.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

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Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Challenger_Marco wrote:Btw can someone tell me why the normal expansion of aoe3 is called as "Vanilla"?


When you eat a retail copy it tastes like vanilla.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by Vinyanyérë »

Hazza54321 wrote:
Vinyanyérë wrote:When you press t the screen centers on your town center instead of just selecting it, and there's no way to change that in Vanilla.

Minimized UI cuts out basically all the useful information and somehow still has an enormous amount of unused space.

Rockies on quicksearch.

On the other hand, Vanilla Spanish = EP Spanish so playing vanilla can be a good practice environment if you're having trouble getting a game on EP.

U can just bind t to a control group


I do this, but I tend to play with a lot of control groups bound at once and dislike having to reserve one for a tc.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by Darwin_ »

kami_ryu wrote:Sounds like Vanilla has less civ variety, less good unit balance and overall worse maps. Glad I'm a TAD guy. I don't understand why you would skip out on 6 cool civs and a bunch of other cool stuff.

Well, the unit balance is overall better imo, due to fewer units. The one exception to that is heavy cavalry, which many people consider to be too weak, but I think it is fine. Fewer civs does not directly mean less variety imo, in fact I think there is a lot more you can do. Because of the fewer civs, the match ups can be much more intricate and complex, if enough high-level players actually played on vanilla. The map balance is worse, that is true, but rikikipu put out a good vanilla mod that has balanced esoc maps for unrated and rated play, as well as a few very small balance tweaks. Imo, the only things that Nilla does worse than TAD in are hotkeys and the ui, everything else I think is a lot better for a competitive environment. Personally, I would rather host a tournament on Nilla over RE TAD, if good maps were used.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

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Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:
Challenger_Marco wrote:Btw can someone tell me why the normal expansion of aoe3 is called as "Vanilla"?


When you eat a retail copy it tastes like vanilla.

jakes rlly good at solving mysteries this week. +1
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by _NiceKING_ »

Challenger_Marco wrote:Btw can someone tell me why the normal expansion of aoe3 is called as "Vanilla"?

I assume that the reason that the word Vanilla is used in this context is because of ice cream. The 'default' basic ice cream flavour is vanilla so it became a synonym for something that exists in its basic unaltered form. Could be there's some far less ice creamy explanation. :grin:
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by _H2O »

You are entitled to think vanilla balance is somehow magically better but the key patch that made this game playable never got applied to vanilla. The one where units actually started countering correctly.

Then you have Spain ff, Otto, and Russia all of which simply beat the other civs. The game is actually bad in my opinion. I view it as a mini game at this point for the more detailed reasons mitoe and others laid out
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

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Post by Mitoe »

@Darwin, even if we apply good maps to Nilla, the game is only more "balanced" at the expense of gameplay. The unit counter-system simply does not work properly. One unit type (bows/skirms) is disproportionately strong for its cost compared to other unit types, and the fact that it can't really be countered by cavalry effectively in turn makes heavy infantry and ranged cavalry equally useless.

You said that you simply need more cavalry than you do in TAD to effectively counter ranged infantry, but even on TAD a 3 huss card is not going to win you a fight vs a well-microed group of ranged infantry. On Nilla that card is often not even worth having in my deck, in my opinion.

Even if I accept the premise that TAD is more imbalanced than Nilla—which I do not believe—it would still be the better game because things like unit composition actually matter, which in turn requires good scouting to properly adapt to your opponents' comp, and proper macro to adapt your own, being able to control different types of unit compositions, etc.

TAD is simply a better game because it rewards the better player more so than Nilla.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Thx was a great help!
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by _H2O »

Yeah I would say that France goes double rax bows wth like 4-10 pokes and cannot lose. Once you have 40 bows the bumping of the cav and the fact that the front ones all die in one volley makes it almost impossible to break without just going pure bow yourself.

The last time I played vanilla was to troll chicks. He would ff as German in the mirror and make pure ulhan. I would make pure skirm and just win with 30-40 skirms left, same scores before fight. Gg so fun.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by Jaeger »

I would really like to see pure skirm win vs pure uhlan when there isn't a 15-20 PR difference lol
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by OrangeRage »

The idea of TAD being worse than Nilla is from the idea of how much better TAD players are in terms of skill compared to their Nilla counterparts. From my experience this bias proves to be true because when good TAD players go to nilla then the TAD player is king on nilla for a day lol
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by Mitoe »

Yeah that would make sense. When a captain on Nilla comes to TAD and struggles to do well vs even 1st lts, they immediately assume it's because the game is imbalanced rather than the ranks meaning different things.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by deleted_user0 »

Nilla is harder to play than tad tho, hotkey wise and other features lacking make it more apm intensive. But its less diverse and less fleshed out, simpler so to speak, which makes it more balanced, just as rock paper scissors is in turn simpler and more balanced.

What u enjoy more is a matter of taste in the end. I personally think rock paper scissors is the superior game
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by deleted_user0 »

OrangeRage wrote:The idea of TAD being worse than Nilla is from the idea of how much better TAD players are in terms of skill compared to their Nilla counterparts. From my experience this bias proves to be true because when good TAD players go to nilla then the TAD player is king on nilla for a day lol

Barely tbh, when nilla was still quite active around 2012-2012 there was no noticable skill difference. But tad has more strategic depth and is the more wellrounded game. Twc and tad civs are fun too and add a nice flavour. Just too bad most people complain bitter tears and ban those civs instead of learning to play (vs) them...

But crying lame is more fun
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by OrangeRage »

umeu wrote:
OrangeRage wrote:The idea of TAD being worse than Nilla is from the idea of how much better TAD players are in terms of skill compared to their Nilla counterparts. From my experience this bias proves to be true because when good TAD players go to nilla then the TAD player is king on nilla for a day lol

Barely tbh, when nilla was still quite active around 2012-2012 there was no noticable skill difference. But tad has more strategic depth and is the more wellrounded game. Twc and tad civs are fun too and add a nice flavour. Just too bad most people complain bitter tears and ban those civs instead of learning to play (vs) them...

But crying lame is more fun

Can you expand on what you mean by barely and why you think the skill difference is not there to the extent of what most people think. If you could go on vanilla for a few games before you answer this question I think it could give you a better reason because I just don't see it myself.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by deleted_user0 »

When nilla was active, it didnt produce worse players. If there is a skill gap now its cause of there being less players in general. I was playing exclusively vanilla at that time as did many others. But almost all of us switched to tad around pk4. But after that a few good players still came from nilla, most notably irishfaithful

Point being, if ur going to be good at aoe, you will most likely be good on either version. Nilla has fewer good players simply cuz it has fewer players
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by Aizamk »

for the record, the list of people who used to be honouraberu nilla scrubs back in the day and now play TAD includes:

you, me, you Umeu, me, Phish, MusketJr, LordRaphael, Tibia, Phish, IrishFaithful, KonigErik, Phish, PrinceOfKabul, KINGofOsmane, Phish, Kaiserklein

also, I think, azertyuiopni, mongo10 (?)
oranges.
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by pecelot »

you forgot Phish :flowers:
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by milku3459 »

pecelot wrote:you forgot Phish :flowers:


GET MILKT
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Re: Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

Post by r4go »

Darwin_ wrote:
kami_ryu wrote:Sounds like Vanilla has less civ variety, less good unit balance and overall worse maps. Glad I'm a TAD guy. I don't understand why you would skip out on 6 cool civs and a bunch of other cool stuff.

Well, the unit balance is overall better imo, due to fewer units. The one exception to that is heavy cavalry, which many people consider to be too weak, but I think it is fine. Fewer civs does not directly mean less variety imo, in fact I think there is a lot more you can do. Because of the fewer civs, the match ups can be much more intricate and complex, if enough high-level players actually played on vanilla. The map balance is worse, that is true, but rikikipu put out a good vanilla mod that has balanced esoc maps for unrated and rated play, as well as a few very small balance tweaks. Imo, the only things that Nilla does worse than TAD in are hotkeys and the ui, everything else I think is a lot better for a competitive environment. Personally, I would rather host a tournament on Nilla over RE TAD, if good maps were used.

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