Tell me why Nilla is worse than TAD :D

[NekoBerk]

Hey guys, i just want to see your opinion about this, i'm recopilating information about this, i'm recopilating reasons of why nilla is worse than tad because i want to make a video in spanish talking about this because there's a lot of ignorant hispanic people on GameRanger saying that TAD's civilizations are so OP and they're unbalanced, and that's the main reason that they give me for justify why they prefer nilla. So... guys, can you help me giving me your points of view about nilla?

Specially @_H2O because some persons told me that he already talked about this but i can't find anything where he talks about it.

[lordraphael]

nilla is better balanced than tad imo, less civs = less balance issues its quite simple. But nilla has missing features. Hotkeys missing. RI being able to deal with cav way to good. Less ´civs. less maps. just less variety.

[__Uhlan__]

I think it's more of the fact they don't know how to play verus Asian civilizations, which makes them OP, I mean it's like doing a fast industrial verus a boomy japan how can you expect to win? Then it looks OP, maybe in Spanish explain to them how to play verus these civs.

[sc]

TAD has a lot of quality of life features that make the game smoother and easier to manage your empire. IIRC its mostly a better UI and maybe a couple key button shortcut thingies, but its been awhile since ive played nilla. I just remember thinking it was practically "unplayable" switching back to nilla. Maybe someone knows what i'm talking about and can elaborate :3

Fan patches are on TAD. Tourneys are mostly played on fan patches. If they are interested in playing competitively/ in tournaments, they'll need TAD (and an ESO account for that matter).

Yeah there are broken elements on TAD, but the meta has adapted. If they gave a damn about improving they would adapt instead of writing off the expansion which the bulk of the community plays on (arguable... IIRC player bases are similar. the bulk of the best players certainly).

Broken shit has been fixed on the Fan patch. get TAD for the patch.

arent otto broken as fuck on nilla?

TWC & TAD maps are dope. Expand your horizons beyond Great Plains, nerds. Nostalgia is great and all but you treaty players are supreme masochists for playing on that map.

cards in deck 20 -> 25.

[tedere12]

mooses are too small

[Mitoe]

On Nilla the maps are worse and the counter system is broken: cav are basically useless, countered even by the units they're supposed to counter themselves, so having a large mass of bows or skirms is very difficult to counter without cannons or an extremely overwhelming number of cav, or, just more bows or skirms of your own. Not to mention that TCs bonus against cav, making raiding more difficult.

TPs cost 250w instead of 200w, which removes some options for civs to use them to benefit certain types of strategies early on because it's a lot harder to mix them in in the early game without it slowing you down (e.g. aging 10-15 seconds late to Colonial, or getting out 1 less unit in early colonial—which does matter quite a bit, by the way). It also costs significantly more to try to grab the TP line and upgrade it, making it a lot easier to punish any sort of stagecoach build.

Some people will disagree with me that this is a bad thing, and will argue that TPs are too strong on TAD, that stagecoach builds are broken, etc. But in my opinion TPs on TAD are a healthy addition to the game that creates a good dynamic that players have to keep in mind when planning out a build or adapting to their opponent's build. Of course if you're just going to ignore your opponent whenever they try to go for a stagecoach build on TAD instead of trying to punish him for investing 800-1000+ resources on TPs (a large percentage of all of the resources he's gathered at that point in time) and stagecoach early you're going to be at a disadvantage.


All of this just makes the game a lot more one-dimensional than TAD: it becomes a lot clearer which strategies are best when maps are bad, one unit-type is significantly stronger and more useful than other unit types, it's a lot harder to apply raid-pressure to someone's TC, and TPs are more often than not a risky investment, not to mention natives are less viable than they already are because of it. On TAD it's a lot less clear what is good or bad, which makes the game a lot more dynamic and fun.

As for the TAD civs: they are simply a lot more well designed than most of the Euro civilizations. The wonder and chieftain systems for Asian and Warchief civs are a lot better than the European politician system. Euro civs have different options for each age, but the majority of the time only 1 option is really viable and the others are simply bad, often not even viable in the most obscure game modes. At least the Asian and Warchief civs are sometimes less obvious and often give you useful bonuses even if you pick a seemingly sub-optimal age up option. Also the way the Asian wonders may decrease their age up time by spending villager seconds and allowing you to train villagers in transition also helps provide some more options and reward better players while not taking away from weaker players' fun.

It is true that they are difficult to play against if you don't know what you're doing, but the majority of top players agree that these civs are very beatable, and often even assert that Euro civs are the top civs.

To conclude, Nilla is just a lot more one-dimensional than TAD. You can argue that this makes it more balanced (I would disagree here, but don't care enough to start that discussion), but it just makes the game a lot less fun to play. TAD is overall a lot more well-designed than Nilla, and offers a lot of different ways to play, from drastically different types of strategies to very subtle variations on certain builds where you may decide that investing in a TP, or multiple TPs, or a different age up wonder/chieftain, or making use of your firepit or consulate in ways you normally wouldn't, etc. helps you to augment different types of builds or styles of play with an adequate level of risk & reward.

This is my opinion. Not everyone will agree with it, but TAD is not more imbalanced than Nilla like so many people suggest, and offers a lot more in terms of healthy gameplay than Nilla does.

[Aizamk]

Don't listen to Mitoe, he's a dishonouraberu NR 55 rule-breaker

[KINGofOsmane]

nilla has better balance but nobody plays it so your forced to play tad

[Mr_Bramboy]

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... atestmatch 67 pages

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... atestmatch 5 pages

[roiarthurbis]

Don't listen to Mitoe, he's a dishonouraberu NR 55 rule-breaker

Well master u lose to filthy dirty aztecs with mighty british empire.

[momuuu]

Im still waiting for this to turn into a massive flame war.

[roiarthurbis]

Im still waiting for this to turn into a massive flame war.

dont worry it's happening. aiz made bald men vs feather men doesnt work

[Dsy]

You cant make hotkeys for building without bad jumping screen effect, You can only ctrl group.
And there is no select all "type" buildings hotkeys like in tad.

[AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE]

Don't listen to Mitoe, he's a dishonouraberu NR 55 rule-breaker

we said half map but im sure his walls were like at least 3 inches on my side of the map. cheater!

[AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE]

nah just kidding ima bout to drop the bomb:

NILLA MUCH MORE BALANCED

edit: rapha already said that, shite, am late as usual

[Darwin_]

Nilla is fairly one-dimensional, but has fairly better balance. If you were going to make a gameplay, ui, hotkeys, and maps patch for Nilla, you wouldnt have to make very many changes to make the game way more fun, balanced, and diverse.

[noissance]

The reason why tad is better is simply the UI and hotkeys.

[milku3459]

They have their pros and cons, or as the chinese saying would have it, 各有千秋。
TAD has FUN new civs, MORE natives, TPs that actually are a viable option as a strat than something you just build when you have extra wood.
On Vanilla however, Ottos are not really broken at lower levels because they are st00p1d (things like allowing Portugal to musket rush them), nobody lames Spain and cav is more useful than Mitoe would like to think. Also Portugal is viable but not a broken-TP-eating-map-controlling-shipment-sending lame civ.

[JakeyBoyTH]

They have their pros and cons, or as the chinese saying would have it, 各有千秋。
TAD has FUN new civs, MORE natives, TPs that actually are a viable option as a strat than something you just build when you have extra wood.
On Vanilla however, Ottos are not really broken at lower levels because they are st00p1d (things like allowing Portugal to musket rush them), nobody lames Spain and cav is more useful than Mitoe would like to think. Also Portugal is viable but not a broken-TP-eating-map-controlling-shipment-sending lame civ.

bias

[Vinyanyérë]

When you press t the screen centers on your town center instead of just selecting it, and there's no way to change that in Vanilla.

Minimized UI cuts out basically all the useful information and somehow still has an enormous amount of unused space.

Rockies on quicksearch.

On the other hand, Vanilla Spanish = EP Spanish so playing vanilla can be a good practice environment if you're having trouble getting a game on EP.

[Hazza54321]

When you press t the screen centers on your town center instead of just selecting it, and there's no way to change that in Vanilla.

Minimized UI cuts out basically all the useful information and somehow still has an enormous amount of unused space.

Rockies on quicksearch.

On the other hand, Vanilla Spanish = EP Spanish so playing vanilla can be a good practice environment if you're having trouble getting a game on EP.

U can just bind t to a control group

[Dsy]

Thats a lot of time to bind them to cntrl groups.
You need other buildings hotkeys aswell, like barak, stable, foundry, dock. Its already 5 and i use 5 for army. Its out of max 9 contrl groups. Plus its time to bind like i said.

[Darwin_]

@mitoe I think that Nilla cav is a lot more balanced. On TAD, you can win fairly easily with a decently timed 3 huss shipment or 5 huss batch, while on Nilla, you need to have better timing or larger mass.

[tedere12]

@mitoe I think that Nilla cav is a lot more balanced. On TAD, you can win fairly easily with a decently timed 3 huss shipment or 5 huss batch, while on Nilla, you need to have better timing or larger mass.

I think you are unaware of how weak cav are on nilla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAtnjggiraU I think that will make you reconsider

[Darwin_]

@mitoe I think that Nilla cav is a lot more balanced. On TAD, you can win fairly easily with a decently timed 3 huss shipment or 5 huss batch, while on Nilla, you need to have better timing or larger mass.

I think you are unaware of how weak cav are on nilla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAtnjggiraU I think that will make you reconsider

Kaiser had great position with his xbows. I think the problem is more with xbows than the cav. It is a little wierd that they dont have a multiplier against Hi and a lower base attack.