Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

kami_ryu wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:Building Rotator lowers the skill cap of players and changes the civilization strength considerably


Because buildings aren't oriented the same? Nah... you can build walls for 5w a piece and the only advantage you could get from building rotation is a better sim-city. I don't see it that breaking balance, the better player wins the game regardless of how well your base is made.

Not true. Try playing against a Dutch player who walled his base perfectly, and against one who randomly puts his buildings down. This works for all civs but Dutch amplifies this effect because it's a turtle civ.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by kami_ryu »

I've played against Jerom, I know the pains of playing against a well made sim city. You have to deal with it but it's certainly not making Dutch overpowered. Nor would it make Japan overpowered. That stuff isn't what wins games.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

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Post by momuuu »

kami_ryu wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:Building Rotator lowers the skill cap of players and changes the civilization strength considerably


Because buildings aren't oriented the same? Nah... you can build walls for 5w a piece and the only advantage you could get from building rotation is a better sim-city. I don't see it that breaking balance, the better player wins the game regardless of how well your base is made.

Convince people like mankl and mitoe pls. Ive given up.

Ultimately building rotator makes the game more consistent as it eliminates rotational mapscrews (that being that some spawns/maps are favorable for some civs like dutch/japan because their banks/toshugu shrine can be placed in the preffered way). Its mostly just a super minor thing so I think it seems odd to have a rule that leads to disqualification about something that actually makes a difference in <<0.1% of games.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by momuuu »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
kami_ryu wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:Building Rotator lowers the skill cap of players and changes the civilization strength considerably


Because buildings aren't oriented the same? Nah... you can build walls for 5w a piece and the only advantage you could get from building rotation is a better sim-city. I don't see it that breaking balance, the better player wins the game regardless of how well your base is made.

Not true. Try playing against a Dutch player who walled his base perfectly, and against one who randomly puts his buildings down. This works for all civs but Dutch amplifies this effect because it's a turtle civ.

Its not like building rotator or not makes that much difference. Having building rotator can sometimes allow you to deal with shitty spawns where trees or trade routes are annoyingly placed or when the banks are inconveniently rotated by default. But still its ultra minor.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

It still makes a difference, it might not be huge but it's not fair if you have it and the enemy doesn't.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by gustavusadolphus »

In basement experience the building rotate mod seems to cause out of sync errors. We only ever get them when someone tries sot install he building rotate mod.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by pecelot »

fightinfrenchman wrote:It still makes a difference, it might not be huge but it's not fair if you have it and the enemy doesn't.

On EP everyone can have it :hmm:
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

pecelot wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:It still makes a difference, it might not be huge but it's not fair if you have it and the enemy doesn't.

On EP everyone can have it :hmm:


I'm well aware, but using it not on EP is cheating plain and simple.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by pecelot »

No, it's not. Its usage is only forbidden in tournaments, which are hosted on the EP, but it's naturally not the same.
That's the main paradox here: if the tournament staff doesn't allow it, why is it in the launcher in the first place? :hmm:
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

pecelot wrote:No, it's not. Its usage is only forbidden in tournaments, which are hosted on the EP, but it's naturally not the same.
That's the main paradox here: if the tournament staff doesn't allow it, why is it in the launcher in the first place? :hmm:


Well it's not part of the game so if you both players aren't using it is simply not fair.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by pecelot »

How is that not a part of the game?
If one player can use it, why the other can't? Also perhaps we should forbid keyboard usage, as one of the participants may just not be using one, right?
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

In *premier* *super-awesome* *amazing* tournaments it is allowed.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

pecelot wrote:How is that not a part of the game?
If one player can use it, why the other can't? Also perhaps we should forbid keyboard usage, as one of the participants may just not be using one, right?


Well by that logic moesbar hacks should be allowed. If one player can use it, why can't the other?
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by jesus3 »

at this point i just wanna say I really like the building rotator and it being prohibited makes me sad.

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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by evilcheadar »

Some people really like moesbar hacks tho
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by pecelot »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
pecelot wrote:How is that not a part of the game?
If one player can use it, why the other can't? Also perhaps we should forbid keyboard usage, as one of the participants may just not be using one, right?


Well by that logic moesbar hacks should be allowed. If one player can use it, why can't the other?

Do you consider rotating buildings, already present in scenario editor and mistakenly not included in the final version of the game for players to use in regular games, equal to blatant cheating?
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by bwinner »

It's really stupide to compare it with moesbar hack...
Contrary to moesbar hack, building rotator is clearly a normal mechanic of the game. But as everyone said, if it wasn't include on ep that would be something unfair that should be banned for sure, but considering esoc gave it to everyone, it is not unfair at all, and stupide to bann it...
For people who confirm it's the same as moesbar hack, don't you think we should bann ep team from esoc for spreading cheat ? That's why diarouga get perma bann, so...
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

bwinner1 wrote:It's really stupide to compare it with moesbar hack...
Contrary to moesbar hack, building rotator is clearly a normal mechanic of the game. But as everyone said, if it wasn't include on ep that would be something unfair that should be banned for sure, but considering esoc gave it to everyone, it is not unfair at all, and stupide to bann it...
For people who confirm it's the same as moesbar hack, don't you think we should bann ep team from esoc for spreading cheat ? That's why diarouga get perma bann, so...
Diarouga has already signed up for the new upcoming tournament
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

bwinner1 wrote:It's really stupide to compare it with moesbar hack...
Contrary to moesbar hack, building rotator is clearly a normal mechanic of the game. But as everyone said, if it wasn't include on ep that would be something unfair that should be banned for sure, but considering esoc gave it to everyone, it is not unfair at all, and stupide to bann it...
For people who confirm it's the same as moesbar hack, don't you think we should bann ep team from esoc for spreading cheat ? That's why diarouga get perma bann, so...


I didn't say it was the same as moesbar hacks. I'm saying the logic used to claim that the building rotate mod is fine to use could be equally applied to literally any other game mod. If both players have it then I don't see an issue. But unless players are playing on the patch and it's included then it shouldn't be allowed.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by bwinner »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:It's really stupide to compare it with moesbar hack...
Contrary to moesbar hack, building rotator is clearly a normal mechanic of the game. But as everyone said, if it wasn't include on ep that would be something unfair that should be banned for sure, but considering esoc gave it to everyone, it is not unfair at all, and stupide to bann it...
For people who confirm it's the same as moesbar hack, don't you think we should bann ep team from esoc for spreading cheat ? That's why diarouga get perma bann, so...


I didn't say it was the same as moesbar hacks. I'm saying the logic used to claim that the building rotate mod is fine to use could be equally applied to literally any other game mod. If both players have it then I don't see an issue. But unless players are playing on the patch and it's included then it shouldn't be allowed.


Well, ofc, but actually player ARE playing on the patch (we r talking about tourney rule here...) AND it IS included on in the patch, so that argument don't make sens here
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by fightinfrenchman »

bwinner1 wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:It's really stupide to compare it with moesbar hack...
Contrary to moesbar hack, building rotator is clearly a normal mechanic of the game. But as everyone said, if it wasn't include on ep that would be something unfair that should be banned for sure, but considering esoc gave it to everyone, it is not unfair at all, and stupide to bann it...
For people who confirm it's the same as moesbar hack, don't you think we should bann ep team from esoc for spreading cheat ? That's why diarouga get perma bann, so...


I didn't say it was the same as moesbar hacks. I'm saying the logic used to claim that the building rotate mod is fine to use could be equally applied to literally any other game mod. If both players have it then I don't see an issue. But unless players are playing on the patch and it's included then it shouldn't be allowed.


Well, ofc, but actually player ARE playing on the patch (we r talking about tourney rule here...) AND it IS included on in the patch, so that argument don't make sens here


Is it actually built in to the patch? Or does the launcher just link to it? If it is built in then yes I agree that doesn't make sense.
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by bwinner »

It's built into the patch
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

just because you can do something doesnt mean you should, case in point Alt-D but somethings you cant do like rotate builds is something everyone should get. Its awesome
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by pecelot »

DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:
bwinner1 wrote:It's really stupide to compare it with moesbar hack...
Contrary to moesbar hack, building rotator is clearly a normal mechanic of the game. But as everyone said, if it wasn't include on ep that would be something unfair that should be banned for sure, but considering esoc gave it to everyone, it is not unfair at all, and stupide to bann it...
For people who confirm it's the same as moesbar hack, don't you think we should bann ep team from esoc for spreading cheat ? That's why diarouga get perma bann, so...
Diarouga has already signed up for the new upcoming tournament

sign-up =/= participation
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Re: Buildings placement Rotation ESOC?

Post by evilcheadar »

howlingwolfpaw wrote:just because you can do something doesnt mean you should, case in point Alt-D but somethings you cant do like rotate builds is something everyone should get. Its awesome

alt+d is also awesome
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