2v2 tournament
Re: 2v2 tournament
I have read tons of garbage on this forum, but some of the posts in this thread tops them all.
The water_girl behaved in an unacceptable manner, the fact that he dont even apologize just makes him look like a bigger tool.
With the label of being among the best to ever have played AoE, certain responsibilities follow, as is it in any sport.
As I understand it, the tournament was organized by ESOC forum, where Water_baby is member of the "Media Team"
The water_girl behaved in an unacceptable manner, the fact that he dont even apologize just makes him look like a bigger tool.
With the label of being among the best to ever have played AoE, certain responsibilities follow, as is it in any sport.
As I understand it, the tournament was organized by ESOC forum, where Water_baby is member of the "Media Team"
[Sith] - Baphomet
- princeofkabul
- Pro Player
- Posts: 2372
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- ESO: Princeofkabul
- Location: In retirement home with Sam and Vic
Re: 2v2 tournament
there are some people who doesn't care about the community, im not saying ryan is one of them. but personally i some many top lvl players as friends who could do the same stunt as he did and give zero fucks about what u guys think about it. that's why it's bigger deal ryan did it than anyone else, because he's a moderator. if you're thinking why people tolerated when mareshal did this and blackstar(pc crashing sucks though) isn't it obvious? ryan is in spot he can't really do stuff like this where some players are, if i did this for some reason the "consequenses" wouldn't be as bad as to ryan. when i or any other top player is in the tournament most of us are not playing for you, like im playing for myself and trying to have a good time and there are others who also thinks like this, so stop being a bitch, it happened. too bad ryan is in the moderator spot, like any other could've done the same without getting this shitstorm really.
being a mod in this site brings the responsibilities, and no im not really defending ryan about this but in the deep i know he, like any others here plays for themselves. not for community.
then there's this case what happened with breeze, i dont really know what happened so i leave it like that.
being a mod in this site brings the responsibilities, and no im not really defending ryan about this but in the deep i know he, like any others here plays for themselves. not for community.
then there's this case what happened with breeze, i dont really know what happened so i leave it like that.
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- Ninja
- Posts: 14364
- Joined: Mar 26, 2015
Re: 2v2 tournament
Yeah I'm actually inclined to agree with a princeofkabul post. Or at least maybe players like myself who frequently quit/uninstall/whatever from losses can relate more but if the stimulus (i.e. an aoe game(s)) is not pleasant then why should the individual have to bear it? Yes, you can argue there was a disservice to the viewers watching but look at these issues from both sides. Ryan has arguably put in some of the most time/effort of anyone into this project and he just didn't want to finish out the games in a decade-old rts tourney. Maybe he deserves a break, for once. From the history of the entirety of his aoe actions it is only clear that Ryan cares very deeply about this game and the furthering of the community. If anyone thinks otherwise they are approaching ignorance. A mere impulsive side effect as the product of losing shouldn't be met with such stark criticism.
I forfeited my 2nd chance tourney match vs duck. Literally no one gave a shit. Every tournament group stage matches are not played out. One player should not be held to such an overwhelmingly higher standard than others, really, especially given everything he has done.
I'm not condoning the situation and I'm not trying to hand out a free pass; I'm saying approach it with a sense of understanding. shit.
edit: H2o is a popular person to hate. I'm seeing a lot of replies here that are just trying to take advantage of an opportunity to do just that which I find more disappointing than the original situation being discussed.
I forfeited my 2nd chance tourney match vs duck. Literally no one gave a shit. Every tournament group stage matches are not played out. One player should not be held to such an overwhelmingly higher standard than others, really, especially given everything he has done.
I'm not condoning the situation and I'm not trying to hand out a free pass; I'm saying approach it with a sense of understanding. shit.
edit: H2o is a popular person to hate. I'm seeing a lot of replies here that are just trying to take advantage of an opportunity to do just that which I find more disappointing than the original situation being discussed.
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- Dragoon
- Posts: 246
- Joined: May 21, 2015
Re: 2v2 tournament
It was nice to see Ryan and Sam in a tourney game again - they hadn't played much and playing against Veni and BS_OP in a team game is never going to be easy. It's frustrating to lose games when you know you can do / play better, and some people can get frustrated easily (how many times has Ryan resigned in 1v1s because he loses a treasure, someone blocks an Agra etc.). Even if he played out the third game he'd be frustrated and not motivated to play, so it wouldn't even be fun for the viewers to watch.
I don't know why people are getting so worked up about it - Veni and BS_OP played better in the two games and they go through. People love the big players signing up to tournies - yet when they decide to sign up (and come back just to play it when not being active before) some of the community then decide to take the time to flame. And then the same players complain it's a dead game or no good players want to play anymore. Ironic really.
The right people are in the final and they beat two very good players. Let's look forward to the final...?!
I don't know why people are getting so worked up about it - Veni and BS_OP played better in the two games and they go through. People love the big players signing up to tournies - yet when they decide to sign up (and come back just to play it when not being active before) some of the community then decide to take the time to flame. And then the same players complain it's a dead game or no good players want to play anymore. Ironic really.
The right people are in the final and they beat two very good players. Let's look forward to the final...?!
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- Ninja
- Posts: 14364
- Joined: Mar 26, 2015
Re: 2v2 tournament
jsimons1289 wrote: Let's look forward to the final...?!
The finals will indeed be quite hype
Re: 2v2 tournament
Imo Any rule to the effect of banning players for forfeiting in a series, for future tournaments, is not in the interest of the community.
The players are at the core of the community. The viewers interest should be secondary.
Players should be allowed to resign from a series if they wish to. Its no point forcing players to play one sided unexciting matches.
What should not be allowed is- trolling in a game, throwing away a game or resigning in starting 2-3 mins of a game. That is disrespectful to the opponent.
Also new rules are needed regarding - being more than 15min late for previously agreed and scheduled tournament. Amount of idle time players can take between games.
The players are at the core of the community. The viewers interest should be secondary.
Players should be allowed to resign from a series if they wish to. Its no point forcing players to play one sided unexciting matches.
What should not be allowed is- trolling in a game, throwing away a game or resigning in starting 2-3 mins of a game. That is disrespectful to the opponent.
Also new rules are needed regarding - being more than 15min late for previously agreed and scheduled tournament. Amount of idle time players can take between games.
- milku3459
- Howdah
- Posts: 1216
- Joined: Nov 8, 2016
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- Location: in your base, killing your dudes
Re: 2v2 tournament
I don't care if H2O loses. In fact, it's nice to see him get his ass kicked in fights and "be jacked around all game" because we get to see the best display of skill. Isn't it more interesting to see him attempt to come back from something like the Japan mirror with Braidon rather than just resign when he knows he can't win?
- lemmings121
- Jaeger
- Posts: 2673
- Joined: Mar 15, 2015
- ESO: lemmings121
Re: 2v2 tournament
deleted_user wrote:Yeah I'm actually inclined to agree with a princeofkabul post. Or at least maybe players like myself who frequently quit/uninstall/whatever from losses can relate more but if the stimulus (i.e. an aoe game(s)) is not pleasant then why should the individual have to bear it? Yes, you can argue there was a disservice to the viewers watching but look at these issues from both sides. Ryan has arguably put in some of the most time/effort of anyone into this project and he just didn't want to finish out the games in a decade-old rts tourney. Maybe he deserves a break, for once. From the history of the entirety of his aoe actions it is only clear that Ryan cares very deeply about this game and the furthering of the community. If anyone thinks otherwise they are approaching ignorance. A mere impulsive side effect from the product of losing shouldn't be met with such stark criticism.
I forfeited my 2nd chance tourney match vs duck. Literally no one gave a shit. Every tournament group stage matches are not played out. One player should not be held to such an overwhelmingly higher standard than others, really, especially given everything he has done.
I'm not condoning the situation and I'm not trying to hand out a free pass; I'm saying approach it with a sense of understanding. shit.
edit: H2o is a popular person to hate. I'm seeing a lot of replies here that are just trying to take advantage of an opportunity to do just that which I find more disappointing than the original situation being discussed.
Hey, I gave several shits about your forfeiting against duck :/
Re: 2v2 tournament
I was pretty unhappy that you forfeited in 2nd chance callen. Just so you know, you did disappoint me. So did h2o.
But being disappointed is part of life. Its not the best behaviour to forfeit tournament games, but theres many cases in which its a possible consideration. I remember playing umeu in a tournament during my exam week so I had very little time and then in game 1 my best civ got rekt and game 2 was basically embarassingly bad from my end. I just wanted it to be over so I could go back to spending my time efficiently. Even though that game was being streamed the will to just quit was pretty strong so I can imagine that people would want to forfeit.
Its never fun especially as media team. The forfeit from marechal rondon kinda screwed over our stream schedule pretty badly, it also wasnt that nice that h2o kinda stopped trying in the last finals although he did play all the games even though he clearly was demotivated. The motivation to just play it out for the community and the viewers and those that organized it is sometimes clearly lacking. Should we make very strict rules and add consequences to it? I dont know. On the one hand it might improve behaviour a little. On the other hand the community is so small that we might have to accept some bad behaviour from time to time. Maybe people would be willing to sacrifise more for the community if some people (it always seems to be the same group of people doesnt it) would try to stop making a drama out of every tiny thing that happens and stop applying an inhuman standard to some players and esoc.
At the very least I think lordraphael's post (hint for all forum members, he usually makes very sensible and objective posts, worth paying extra attention to) sums up what should be done with this current case. Stop trying to want h2o to be a perfect human being, use normal standards for him like we would for other people (also read prince's post on this, he hits the nail on its head).
That is just my incoherent opinion.
But being disappointed is part of life. Its not the best behaviour to forfeit tournament games, but theres many cases in which its a possible consideration. I remember playing umeu in a tournament during my exam week so I had very little time and then in game 1 my best civ got rekt and game 2 was basically embarassingly bad from my end. I just wanted it to be over so I could go back to spending my time efficiently. Even though that game was being streamed the will to just quit was pretty strong so I can imagine that people would want to forfeit.
Its never fun especially as media team. The forfeit from marechal rondon kinda screwed over our stream schedule pretty badly, it also wasnt that nice that h2o kinda stopped trying in the last finals although he did play all the games even though he clearly was demotivated. The motivation to just play it out for the community and the viewers and those that organized it is sometimes clearly lacking. Should we make very strict rules and add consequences to it? I dont know. On the one hand it might improve behaviour a little. On the other hand the community is so small that we might have to accept some bad behaviour from time to time. Maybe people would be willing to sacrifise more for the community if some people (it always seems to be the same group of people doesnt it) would try to stop making a drama out of every tiny thing that happens and stop applying an inhuman standard to some players and esoc.
At the very least I think lordraphael's post (hint for all forum members, he usually makes very sensible and objective posts, worth paying extra attention to) sums up what should be done with this current case. Stop trying to want h2o to be a perfect human being, use normal standards for him like we would for other people (also read prince's post on this, he hits the nail on its head).
That is just my incoherent opinion.
- JakeyBoyTH
- Howdah
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Oct 15, 2016
- ESO: Ex-Contributor
- Location: New Zealand
Re: 2v2 tournament
Jerom wrote:I was pretty unhappy that you forfeited in 2nd chance callen. Just so you know, you did disappoint me. So did h2o.
But being disappointed is part of life. Its not the best behaviour to forfeit tournament games, but theres many cases in which its a possible consideration. I remember playing umeu in a tournament during my exam week so I had very little time and then in game 1 my best civ got rekt and game 2 was basically embarassingly bad from my end. I just wanted it to be over so I could go back to spending my time efficiently. Even though that game was being streamed the will to just quit was pretty strong so I can imagine that people would want to forfeit.
Its never fun especially as media team. The forfeit from marechal rondon kinda screwed over our stream schedule pretty badly, it also wasnt that nice that h2o kinda stopped trying in the last finals although he did play all the games even though he clearly was demotivated. The motivation to just play it out for the community and the viewers and those that organized it is sometimes clearly lacking. Should we make very strict rules and add consequences to it? I dont know. On the one hand it might improve behaviour a little. On the other hand the community is so small that we might have to accept some bad behaviour from time to time. Maybe people would be willing to sacrifise more for the community if some people (it always seems to be the same group of people doesnt it) would try to stop making a drama out of every tiny thing that happens and stop applying an inhuman standard to some players and esoc.
At the very least I think lordraphael's post (hint for all forum members, he usually makes very sensible and objective posts, worth paying extra attention to) sums up what should be done with this current case. Stop trying to want h2o to be a perfect human being, use normal standards for him like we would for other people (also read prince's post on this, he hits the nail on its head).
That is just my incoherent opinion.
so he just gets away with it?
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- Aizamk
Ugh Advanced Wonders suck
- Aizamk
- Aizamk
Ugh Advanced Wonders suck
- Aizamk
Re: 2v2 tournament
lemmings121 wrote:deleted_user wrote:Yeah I'm actually inclined to agree with a princeofkabul post. Or at least maybe players like myself who frequently quit/uninstall/whatever from losses can relate more but if the stimulus (i.e. an aoe game(s)) is not pleasant then why should the individual have to bear it? Yes, you can argue there was a disservice to the viewers watching but look at these issues from both sides. Ryan has arguably put in some of the most time/effort of anyone into this project and he just didn't want to finish out the games in a decade-old rts tourney. Maybe he deserves a break, for once. From the history of the entirety of his aoe actions it is only clear that Ryan cares very deeply about this game and the furthering of the community. If anyone thinks otherwise they are approaching ignorance. A mere impulsive side effect from the product of losing shouldn't be met with such stark criticism.
I forfeited my 2nd chance tourney match vs duck. Literally no one gave a shit. Every tournament group stage matches are not played out. One player should not be held to such an overwhelmingly higher standard than others, really, especially given everything he has done.
I'm not condoning the situation and I'm not trying to hand out a free pass; I'm saying approach it with a sense of understanding. shit.
edit: H2o is a popular person to hate. I'm seeing a lot of replies here that are just trying to take advantage of an opportunity to do just that which I find more disappointing than the original situation being discussed.
Hey, I gave several shits about your forfeiting against duck :/
me too!!
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- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
Re: 2v2 tournament
There were never any rules in place against this, even though ive asked for this as far back as when spadel forfeited in pk3... And again when bsop did it vs musketjr (funnily enough many who now demand h2os head, defended bsop at that time). So ofc he gets away with it, he didnt break any rules.
Imo there should be some rules, every competitive play has rules against just forfeiting the game and put sanctions on wilfully throwing games because it ruins the spirit of competition fir all involved, players, viewers and organizers...
Imo there should be some rules, every competitive play has rules against just forfeiting the game and put sanctions on wilfully throwing games because it ruins the spirit of competition fir all involved, players, viewers and organizers...
- Lunatic_Fringe
- Dragoon
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Aug 23, 2016
- ESO: Nightwing
- Location: Canada
Re: 2v2 tournament
deleted_user wrote:Yeah I'm actually inclined to agree with a princeofkabul post. Or at least maybe players like myself who frequently quit/uninstall/whatever from losses can relate more but if the stimulus (i.e. an aoe game(s)) is not pleasant then why should the individual have to bear it? Yes, you can argue there was a disservice to the viewers watching but look at these issues from both sides. Ryan has arguably put in some of the most time/effort of anyone into this project and he just didn't want to finish out the games in a decade-old rts tourney. Maybe he deserves a break, for once. From the history of the entirety of his aoe actions it is only clear that Ryan cares very deeply about this game and the furthering of the community. If anyone thinks otherwise they are approaching ignorance. A mere impulsive side effect as the product of losing shouldn't be met with such stark criticism.
I forfeited my 2nd chance tourney match vs duck. Literally no one gave a shit. Every tournament group stage matches are not played out. One player should not be held to such an overwhelmingly higher standard than others, really, especially given everything he has done.
I'm not condoning the situation and I'm not trying to hand out a free pass; I'm saying approach it with a sense of understanding. shit.
edit: H2o is a popular person to hate. I'm seeing a lot of replies here that are just trying to take advantage of an opportunity to do just that which I find more disappointing than the original situation being discussed.
I agree with what you say. Some people just hate H2O because he achieved a lot. It is true that there are many issues with many players being banned for reasons that not everyone agrees to those reasons to, but since they were banned by ESOC, the blame goes to H2O in every case (directly or indirectly). The way H2O quitted was unethical and the way he entered the tournament also was not the best. But I remember some esoc staff defending him when Breeze and Goongoon got kicked out, but now they are saying that he doesn't have their support. I find all of that an irony. People are just backbiting each other.
Let's use this as a turning point. It's true that we can't forget the past, but let's look towards the future. Give a chance to those who were banned to be unbanned if they deserve it. This hatred among many has lasted so long. Give it a fresh new start.
After all, we all play and invest our time here because we love this game and the competition
We don't need disparity, we need a community :)
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