SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

User avatar
Serbia sirmusket
Jaeger
Posts: 2228
Joined: Sep 11, 2015
ESO: ModernDayWarri0r
Location: SRBIJA

SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by sirmusket »

Hi All, Just wanted to ask if my Brit play was at all decent despite beating dutch on EP, I want to know if my VC boom was well executed and in what areas I could improve on, BRIT PLAYERS PREFERABLY!! :)
Attachments
[EP2 SP] Sir_Musket[BR] vs Killjaro[DU] - ESOC Kamchatka.age3yrec
(508.05 KiB) Downloaded 70 times
ESOC Kamchatka
ESOC Kamchatka
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: ESOC Patch 2.0
Length: 26 minutes
No Flag tedere12
Jaeger
Posts: 3449
Joined: Jun 8, 2015

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by tedere12 »

Ego rec imo
User avatar
Serbia sirmusket
Jaeger
Posts: 2228
Joined: Sep 11, 2015
ESO: ModernDayWarri0r
Location: SRBIJA

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by sirmusket »

tedere12 wrote:Ego rec imo

I wan't to improve me brit's beating a pr21 is nothing to be egotistic about :)
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by forgrin »

Ok musket, cool rec. Imma go hard on you because I want you to get better.

-watch the first game [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63fPqKjABPk[/video]

If your dutch player actually knew how to play the MU (eg you can't just sit in your base and semi-FI because brits will outboom dutch if left alone) and pressured your hunts the game would have gone really differently. Against a Dutch player you really have to control the game, it's similar to Brit vs Japan (but not quite so polarized IMO). Brits have the tools for this but you have to use them. The best way to prevent dutch from getting what they want vs you, eg fortress, is to do a bow/pike + add huss contain while booming behind and force them to stay colonial. A dutch at the same level as you skill wise will roll over you in their mid fortress, and even if you do wall turtle they can go ruyt/falc and destroy you when you try to follow them up as you did here. On this map a contain would have been really good because Kamchatka has those shit mines in base and the next ones are easily denied.

Little tips:
Usually when I see ppl (eg Aiz) do VC it's on the big wood start where they get a TP immediately. This is when you should do VC most games because you can ship 3v and VC. Since you wanna be playing more aggressively in this MU you really should be shipping 3v instead, even Goodspeed agrees that it's pretty much even in terms of value (VC is only slightly ahead in a brit mirror example).

Your hunt control was kinda shit. Brits can age up quite quickly, and 5:10ish ageup is really inexcusable on EP maps, you should be able to start aging before 3 mins pretty much every game. It was hunt control that cost you age up time. You should have at least 2-3 dead animals directly under the TC from about 1 min in until the first hunts run out. This is a pretty easy skill to master and pays big dividends.

Practice walling without gaps, it's quite easy once you get the hang of it. Also walling really isn't necessary in this MU, if dutch has broken your contain and is pushing you then walls aren't really gonna save you because he'll win by starving you out, not killing your base.

On Kamchatka most of the goats are around the middle island or along the left side. You went to the right instead. Note that most of the good treasures are almost always on the center island or on the left side as well, so scout those first. Note that 80f and 75f were on the island, and 90w, 50w and 40w were on the left. On the right was just shit (monkey food treasure you can never get and 80xp). The map spawns quite consistently in this pattern. Also, chasing the envoy was a waste of time you could have been getting vital wood treasures with.

TL;DR a better dutch would starve you out this game and wreck you with a fortress timing. The thing that saved you was that this guy sucks (kinda like me lol). Your age 1 was also pretty balls, I know you can do better.

You did play the lategame well, I think I would have liked to see you put down some more TCs maybe? Dunno.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
User avatar
Serbia sirmusket
Jaeger
Posts: 2228
Joined: Sep 11, 2015
ESO: ModernDayWarri0r
Location: SRBIJA

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by sirmusket »

forgrin wrote:Ok musket, cool rec. Imma go hard on you because I want you to get better.

-watch the first game [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63fPqKjABPk[/video]

If your dutch player actually knew how to play the MU (eg you can't just sit in your base and semi-FI because brits will outboom dutch if left alone) and pressured your hunts the game would have gone really differently. Against a Dutch player you really have to control the game, it's similar to Brit vs Japan (but not quite so polarized IMO). Brits have the tools for this but you have to use them. The best way to prevent dutch from getting what they want vs you, eg fortress, is to do a bow/pike + add huss contain while booming behind and force them to stay colonial. A dutch at the same level as you skill wise will roll over you in their mid fortress, and even if you do wall turtle they can go ruyt/falc and destroy you when you try to follow them up as you did here. On this map a contain would have been really good because Kamchatka has those shit mines in base and the next ones are easily denied.

Little tips:
Usually when I see ppl (eg Aiz) do VC it's on the big wood start where they get a TP immediately. This is when you should do VC most games because you can ship 3v and VC. Since you wanna be playing more aggressively in this MU you really should be shipping 3v instead, even Goodspeed agrees that it's pretty much even in terms of value (VC is only slightly ahead in a brit mirror example).

Your hunt control was kinda shit. Brits can age up quite quickly, and 5:10ish ageup is really inexcusable on EP maps, you should be able to start aging before 3 mins pretty much every game. It was hunt control that cost you age up time. You should have at least 2-3 dead animals directly under the TC from about 1 min in until the first hunts run out. This is a pretty easy skill to master and pays big dividends.

Practice walling without gaps, it's quite easy once you get the hang of it. Also walling really isn't necessary in this MU, if dutch has broken your contain and is pushing you then walls aren't really gonna save you because he'll win by starving you out, not killing your base.

On Kamchatka most of the goats are around the middle island or along the left side. You went to the right instead. Note that most of the good treasures are almost always on the center island or on the left side as well, so scout those first. Note that 80f and 75f were on the island, and 90w, 50w and 40w were on the left. On the right was just shit (monkey food treasure you can never get and 80xp). The map spawns quite consistently in this pattern. Also, chasing the envoy was a waste of time you could have been getting vital wood treasures with.

TL;DR a better dutch would starve you out this game and wreck you with a fortress timing. The thing that saved you was that this guy sucks (kinda like me lol). Your age 1 was also pretty balls, I know you can do better.

You did play the lategame well, I think I would have liked to see you put down some more TCs maybe? Dunno.

I agree with some things you said, but , the problem is, I scouted and I knew he wasn't going to do a timing push, instead 5 bank FI, and I was free to boom in base, Let's not forget I had like 4 layers if not more of wallz, so he couldn't really go in there cause lb with yeoman just out range everything he had, If i was versing a pr25+ I wouldn't have done VC boom to this extent instead I'd double rax bow/pikes you said into fortress with vet pike/vet lb.
PS: I don't think I made any gapes in walls but alright ;P, also I had like 40 vet lb at 9/10min thats when dutch usually pushes, I doubt ruy/skrim could freely go in and "rek" considering lb SHIT on ruy and skrim, he would need 2-3 falcs to siege and to deal with lb mass, my age 1 was ballz yes, but If you noticed I sent 3 v first and thus costed me in producing vills, i paused for like 10sec, then decided last minute to to vc, also when doing vc you age up slower anyway, 4:40 probably so I'd need to cut 30 sec, which was just age 1 macro ofc
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by forgrin »

sirmusket wrote:
forgrin wrote:Ok musket, cool rec. Imma go hard on you because I want you to get better.

-watch the first game [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63fPqKjABPk[/video]

If your dutch player actually knew how to play the MU (eg you can't just sit in your base and semi-FI because brits will outboom dutch if left alone) and pressured your hunts the game would have gone really differently. Against a Dutch player you really have to control the game, it's similar to Brit vs Japan (but not quite so polarized IMO). Brits have the tools for this but you have to use them. The best way to prevent dutch from getting what they want vs you, eg fortress, is to do a bow/pike + add huss contain while booming behind and force them to stay colonial. A dutch at the same level as you skill wise will roll over you in their mid fortress, and even if you do wall turtle they can go ruyt/falc and destroy you when you try to follow them up as you did here. On this map a contain would have been really good because Kamchatka has those shit mines in base and the next ones are easily denied.

Little tips:
Usually when I see ppl (eg Aiz) do VC it's on the big wood start where they get a TP immediately. This is when you should do VC most games because you can ship 3v and VC. Since you wanna be playing more aggressively in this MU you really should be shipping 3v instead, even Goodspeed agrees that it's pretty much even in terms of value (VC is only slightly ahead in a brit mirror example).

Your hunt control was kinda shit. Brits can age up quite quickly, and 5:10ish ageup is really inexcusable on EP maps, you should be able to start aging before 3 mins pretty much every game. It was hunt control that cost you age up time. You should have at least 2-3 dead animals directly under the TC from about 1 min in until the first hunts run out. This is a pretty easy skill to master and pays big dividends.

Practice walling without gaps, it's quite easy once you get the hang of it. Also walling really isn't necessary in this MU, if dutch has broken your contain and is pushing you then walls aren't really gonna save you because he'll win by starving you out, not killing your base.

On Kamchatka most of the goats are around the middle island or along the left side. You went to the right instead. Note that most of the good treasures are almost always on the center island or on the left side as well, so scout those first. Note that 80f and 75f were on the island, and 90w, 50w and 40w were on the left. On the right was just shit (monkey food treasure you can never get and 80xp). The map spawns quite consistently in this pattern. Also, chasing the envoy was a waste of time you could have been getting vital wood treasures with.

TL;DR a better dutch would starve you out this game and wreck you with a fortress timing. The thing that saved you was that this guy sucks (kinda like me lol). Your age 1 was also pretty balls, I know you can do better.

You did play the lategame well, I think I would have liked to see you put down some more TCs maybe? Dunno.

I agree with some things you said, but , the problem is, I scouted and I knew he wasn't going to do a timing push, instead 5 bank FI, and I was free to boom in base, Let's not forget I had like 4 layers if not more of wallz, so he couldn't really go in there cause lb with yeoman just out range everything he had, If i was versing a pr25+ I wouldn't have done VC boom to this extent instead I'd double rax bow/pikes you said into fortress with vet pike/vet lb.
PS: I don't think I made any gapes in walls but alright ;P


Ok well if you know he's doing 5-bank FI then you just accept your auto-win and move on. But why boom only in base, why not just take complete map control, eat all the hunts and never give him a chance to push out? This guy played the MU poorly and you gave him way more chances to win than he deserved, he should never have hit up to industrial in the first place. You easily had the eco to siege his base, keep all his vills belled up with lbow/Huss early on.

Like dude, you won, but you definitely didn't play optimally, and if this guy knew what he was doing the game could have gone alot worse for you.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
User avatar
Serbia sirmusket
Jaeger
Posts: 2228
Joined: Sep 11, 2015
ESO: ModernDayWarri0r
Location: SRBIJA

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by sirmusket »

forgrin wrote:
sirmusket wrote:
forgrin wrote:Ok musket, cool rec. Imma go hard on you because I want you to get better.

-watch the first game [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63fPqKjABPk[/video]

If your dutch player actually knew how to play the MU (eg you can't just sit in your base and semi-FI because brits will outboom dutch if left alone) and pressured your hunts the game would have gone really differently. Against a Dutch player you really have to control the game, it's similar to Brit vs Japan (but not quite so polarized IMO). Brits have the tools for this but you have to use them. The best way to prevent dutch from getting what they want vs you, eg fortress, is to do a bow/pike + add huss contain while booming behind and force them to stay colonial. A dutch at the same level as you skill wise will roll over you in their mid fortress, and even if you do wall turtle they can go ruyt/falc and destroy you when you try to follow them up as you did here. On this map a contain would have been really good because Kamchatka has those shit mines in base and the next ones are easily denied.

Little tips:
Usually when I see ppl (eg Aiz) do VC it's on the big wood start where they get a TP immediately. This is when you should do VC most games because you can ship 3v and VC. Since you wanna be playing more aggressively in this MU you really should be shipping 3v instead, even Goodspeed agrees that it's pretty much even in terms of value (VC is only slightly ahead in a brit mirror example).

Your hunt control was kinda shit. Brits can age up quite quickly, and 5:10ish ageup is really inexcusable on EP maps, you should be able to start aging before 3 mins pretty much every game. It was hunt control that cost you age up time. You should have at least 2-3 dead animals directly under the TC from about 1 min in until the first hunts run out. This is a pretty easy skill to master and pays big dividends.

Practice walling without gaps, it's quite easy once you get the hang of it. Also walling really isn't necessary in this MU, if dutch has broken your contain and is pushing you then walls aren't really gonna save you because he'll win by starving you out, not killing your base.

On Kamchatka most of the goats are around the middle island or along the left side. You went to the right instead. Note that most of the good treasures are almost always on the center island or on the left side as well, so scout those first. Note that 80f and 75f were on the island, and 90w, 50w and 40w were on the left. On the right was just shit (monkey food treasure you can never get and 80xp). The map spawns quite consistently in this pattern. Also, chasing the envoy was a waste of time you could have been getting vital wood treasures with.

TL;DR a better dutch would starve you out this game and wreck you with a fortress timing. The thing that saved you was that this guy sucks (kinda like me lol). Your age 1 was also pretty balls, I know you can do better.

You did play the lategame well, I think I would have liked to see you put down some more TCs maybe? Dunno.

I agree with some things you said, but , the problem is, I scouted and I knew he wasn't going to do a timing push, instead 5 bank FI, and I was free to boom in base, Let's not forget I had like 4 layers if not more of wallz, so he couldn't really go in there cause lb with yeoman just out range everything he had, If i was versing a pr25+ I wouldn't have done VC boom to this extent instead I'd double rax bow/pikes you said into fortress with vet pike/vet lb.
PS: I don't think I made any gapes in walls but alright ;P


Ok well if you know he's doing 5-bank FI then you just accept your auto-win and move on. But why boom only in base, why not just take complete map control, eat all the hunts and never give him a chance to push out? This guy played the MU poorly and you gave him way more chances to win than he deserved, he should never have hit up to industrial in the first place. You easily had the eco to siege his base, keep all his vills belled up with lbow/Huss early on.

Like dude, you won, but you definitely didn't play optimally, and if this guy knew what he was doing the game could have gone alot worse for you.

eh Ik what you mean, i just felt like walling idk rofl, Ik I could have taken hunts, but couldn't be fuked, wanted to be turtle, ps: this guy is overrated obviously, and after viewing rec game, i realised i could have just rekt him 10mins before the game finished but eh :P, ik that Brit isn't optimal, something more like what i did vs your port on pampas is more optimal, as i boomed just as fine and won the game in age 2. Btw do we have that rec?
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by forgrin »

@sirmusket well you asked for advice and you chose the rec lol, hard to give good advice on a game where your opponent gives you a free win.

Yeah the game on pampas was good, I'll check my recs folder tmrw but I don't think we rec'd it :(
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
User avatar
Serbia sirmusket
Jaeger
Posts: 2228
Joined: Sep 11, 2015
ESO: ModernDayWarri0r
Location: SRBIJA

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by sirmusket »

forgrin wrote:@sirmusket well you asked for advice and you chose the rec lol, hard to give good advice on a game where your opponent gives you a free win.

Yeah the game on pampas was good, I'll check my recs folder tmrw but I don't think we rec'd it :(

I mean he wasns't HORRIBEL per say, but yeah at no point did I need to really try micro at all or get in an awkward situation, ill check for that game now as it was a good one.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by Hazza54321 »

Ego rec
United States of America Killjaro
Crossbow
Posts: 1
Joined: Oct 19, 2016

Re: SirMusket (British) Vs Killjaro (Dutch) EP

Post by Killjaro »

sirmusket wrote:
forgrin wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Ovverated or don't play 1v1? I learn there is 5 banks 2 games before this one. Smh

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV