Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

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Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

Having trouble in this MU. I've played Sir_Musket a bunch of times India vs Russia, I think this is the best I've done so far but still not enough. If anyone has any ideas on what might win me these games I'd be happy to hear it.

Quick game summary: Standard opening. Deflected the 5 coss 5 musk, start getting market ups and massing. Unfortunately, although I had some good trades when Musket tried to timing push me, I was never able to break out of my base and he just slow-rolled me by taking the stagecoach TPs and denying resources. Eventually I was forced to push when he aged but I had lost by then.
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[EP2-1 SP] Sir_Musket[RU] vs Forgrin[IN] - ESOC High Plains.age3yrec
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ESOC High Plains
ESOC High Plains
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: ESOC Patch 2.1
Length: 23 minutes
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by gibson »

you can play boomy agra in base and depend on double minute men and cons minute men to bail you out and than your units are just twice as good as russian units are
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

That's pretty much what I did. Still lost though.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by sirmusket »

gibson wrote:you can play boomy agra in base and depend on double minute men and cons minute men to bail you out and than your units are just twice as good as russian units are

yeah cause zamb are so good :D
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by deleted_user0 »

theyre op actually. india shouldve sneaked an age up in themself i guess. then win with urumi + elephants
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

umeu wrote:theyre op actually. india shouldve sneaked an age up in themself i guess. then win with urumi + elephants

I don't think aging would have been safe in this game. Watch the reply :P
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

Still unsure about what to do in this situation here.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by Jaeger »

forgrin wrote:Still unsure about what to do in this situation here.

Did you make ghurka zamb? Did you make enough zambs for the cossacks? I think the best unit Russia has vs India is cossack, that's what you have to prepare for most.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by britishmusketeer »

I would rather sepoy than zam against russia
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

ovi12 wrote:
forgrin wrote:Still unsure about what to do in this situation here.

Did you make ghurka zamb? Did you make enough zambs for the cossacks? I think the best unit Russia has vs India is cossack, that's what you have to prepare for most.

I did that. Won a couple fights in my base but sirmusket didn't overcommit, then stagecoach took over and I ran out of safe resources to gather. Just not sure how to actually make a winning push here, I had the advantage for a time but zamb/gurk alone seemed too defensive to push into the TP line. When I thought he was aging I knew I had to do a sowar tech switch or just lose the game to OP strelets, but I lost the fight. I feel the game was already over at that point though.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by tedere12 »

watch H2O vs Darwin Giovanni or H2O vs mongo10 he plays this mu really well
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

tedere12 wrote:watch H2O vs Darwin Giovanni or H2O vs mongo10 he plays this mu really well

Darwin does 5 coss 13 strel then throws the game after killing 4-5 vills, not sure how applicable that is.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by Hazza54321 »

britishmusketeer wrote:I would rather sepoy than zam against russia

nah zamb are better for sure
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by sdsanft »

Hazza54321 wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:I would rather sepoy than zam against russia

nah zamb are better for sure

Sepoy have siege so you can capitalize after winning a fight by killing fb, plus I think they're better while defending because zambs need room to kite, but I'm just a noob so don't listen to me.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by Hazza54321 »

sdsanft wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:I would rather sepoy than zam against russia

nah zamb are better for sure

Sepoy have siege so you can capitalize after winning a fight by killing fb, plus I think they're better while defending because zambs need room to kite, but I'm just a noob so don't listen to me.

zamb can stay out of range of the strel when kiting back cav
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

Gibson suggested that I should have pushed instead of imp. bureau and Otto vills. What do ppl who watched the rec think of that?
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by sirmusket »

zoom wrote:Russians is just broken...

Russia RE-> Worst civ
Russia EP-> Broken AF
15F change :hmm: :hmm:
More logical answer-> everyone just underestimate russia on RE
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by sirmusket »

forgrin wrote:
tedere12 wrote:watch H2O vs Darwin Giovanni or H2O vs mongo10 he plays this mu really well

Darwin does 5 coss 13 strel then throws the game after killing 4-5 vills, not sure how applicable that is.

and i feel he did spice trade WAYY to early, having not even sent, 700f/700c or better shipments imo, hence why his mass was smaller when H20 pushed.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by tedere12 »

people were doing that spice trade build quite often at that time, I remember a guide to it on rts sanc
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by sirmusket »

tedere12 wrote:people were doing that spice trade build quite often at that time, I remember a guide to it on rts sanc

Yes ik, but I just said vs India idk if its best thing because then H20's timing just overwhelms Darwin/Russia
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by zoom »

sirmusket wrote:
zoom wrote:Russians is just broken...

Russia RE-> Worst civ
Russia EP-> Broken AF
15F change :hmm: :hmm:
More logical answer-> everyone just underestimate russia on RE
That's what you think!
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by sirmusket »

zoom wrote:
sirmusket wrote:
zoom wrote:Russians is just broken...

Russia RE-> Worst civ
Russia EP-> Broken AF
15F change :hmm: :hmm:
More logical answer-> everyone just underestimate russia on RE
That's what you think!

its what a few people think, and its the truth imo
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by lemmings121 »

you know i'm no expert but I play a bit of india, so i'll point out how I would change things.

Imo when you go full eco early like this, you have to transition to army sooner to push out, at least against this boomy russia. By the time you got foreign logging, I your preffer 600g instead and spend all in army, and timming push with the 3 consulate hussars + 4 sowars on next card, your eco would be enough to keep production, and taking those tps out asap was a must.
Also, dont throw those 75export in the trash, you could have the hussars like 2 minutes earlier if it wasnt for that mistake. (just wait for 300e before allying!!)

I would also add a 2nd rax earlier since you had a lot of eco, try to better spending res (900f/900g at 13min!!!), and I would also make some sepoy. even tho zambs and good agasint cav, you dont have anything to tank, so mass cav can still kill all gurka before you clean it up). also, mm from oto consulate is good, try using it when possible.

But imo thats your biggest problem here was the map, a 5tp line is just to much to ignore and play standard in any mu.
I have done a build with india getting the tp waggon card first, forward agra over the line and played trying to control the line. idk if thats ideal agasint russia, but ignoring 5tps is pretty much suicide on most MUs.
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Re: Forgrin (India) vs Sir_Musket (Russia) on High Plains [EP]

Post by forgrin »

lemmings121 wrote:you know i'm no expert but I play a bit of india, so i'll point out how I would change things.

Imo when you go full eco early like this, you have to transition to army sooner to push out, at least against this boomy russia. By the time you got foreign logging, I your preffer 600g instead and spend all in army, and timming push with the 3 consulate hussars + 4 sowars on next card, your eco would be enough to keep production, and taking those tps out asap was a must.
Also, dont throw those 75export in the trash, you could have the hussars like 2 minutes earlier if it wasnt for that mistake. (just wait for 300e before allying!!)

I would also add a 2nd rax earlier since you had a lot of eco, try to better spending res (900f/900g at 13min!!!), and I would also make some sepoy. even tho zambs and good agasint cav, you dont have anything to tank, so mass cav can still kill all gurka before you clean it up). also, mm from oto consulate is good, try using it when possible.

But imo thats your biggest problem here was the map, a 5tp line is just to much to ignore and play standard in any mu.
I have done a build with india getting the tp waggon card first, forward agra over the line and played trying to control the line. idk if thats ideal agasint russia, but ignoring 5tps is pretty much suicide on most MUs.

Excellent advice, ty lemmings :)
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