[RE] Japan vs China

Great Britain ListlessSalmon
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[RE] Japan vs China

Post by ListlessSalmon »

I played some games as Japan against Tedere12's China, the games themselves are not so interesting (both are lost because of bad fights, a horrible one in the first game and basically the equivalent of deleting all my units in the second one) but I had only played this mu maybe once before these games and I'm wondering if the general approach is ok.

I went Kami boom 600w 4v 600g ashi semi-ff into upgraded inf (as I generally do when I think I can without dying horribly on the way there) vs his tower FF. Looking at the replays it feels like if Japan survives a big push out on the fortress shipments then they should outscale and win which makes me think I should have played less economically (600g twice not 4v 600g, less shrines, delay level 2 gold/all market techs until fortress transition etc.) to have more stuff at that critical point but outscale less hard (but still hard enough) later. But I'm not really sure how efficient China's army is, maybe I need all that eco. I'm also not really sure what kind of composition I want, mostly ashi with some yumi and shipped flaming arrows played defensively with some wall segments/a better built base to make it hard for the cav to get on the arrows/yumi feels like it might be right. But China doesn't have good trainable anti-cav so maybe I should be going some nagis as well (or go to this more later once some of the anticav shipments are used up).

Anyway, any thoughts on this mu or anything in either game or about Japan or AOE3 in general would be much appreciated :smile: .
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[RE SP] ListlessSalmon[JP] vs Tedere12[CH] - ESOC Arkansas.age3yrec
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ESOC Arkansas
ESOC Arkansas
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: Official Patch (Legacy)
Length: 16 minutes
[RE SP] ListlessSalmon[JP] vs Tedere12[CH] - ESOC Arkansas.age3yrec
(533.68 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
ESOC Arkansas
ESOC Arkansas
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: Official Patch (Legacy)
Length: 15 minutes
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by gibson »

go 4vil 600g imo
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by OrangeRage »

gibson wrote:go 4vil 600g imo

I think 600 wood is stronger overall because of shrine output + market ups followed by 600 coin to age up or spam is a lot stronger. 4 vill is more useful later when the villagers can scale with the market upgrades.

I know where you're coming from but he wouldn't be able to follow that up with market ups/shrines as easily or if you're assuming putting up shrine is pointless cuz he'll just siege them down right away?
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India gh0st
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by gh0st »

600w 4v 600g is prefectly fine in this mu, you cant do double 600g. Just try not to overboom in age2. Maybe make shrines upto 140-160 pop max, you dont need more than that that early and also you cant afford much boom.
Ally with Japan consulate asap, coz those clubs comes handy against china op cav. Also, i dont like 2 flaming arrow shipment vs china, as meteor hammer convincingly reks them quite hard with little range.
ashi nagi composition (with 6 yumi from age up) works decent for me with some clubs mixed in. I like to ship all in army shipments in age3 to survive china's big push :P like 5 nagi 5 nagi, or 5 nagi 8 ashi. Going heavy on nagis works quite well here imo, also they have 30% hp card which is insane.
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by OrangeRage »

gh0st wrote:600w 4v 600g is prefectly fine in this mu, you cant do double 600g. Just try not to overboom in age2. Maybe make shrines upto 140-160 pop max, you dont need more than that that early and also you cant afford much boom.
Ally with Japan consulate asap, coz those clubs comes handy against china op cav. Also, i dont like 2 flaming arrow shipment vs china, as meteor hammer convincingly reks them quite hard with little range.
ashi nagi composition (with 6 yumi from age up) works decent for me with some clubs mixed in. I like to ship all in army shipments in age3 to survive china's big push :P like 5 nagi 5 nagi, or 5 nagi 8 ashi. Going heavy on nagis works quite well here imo, also they have 30% hp card which is insane.

If China is gonna ff you'll be 1 shipment slower if you ship 4 vill right?
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by gibson »

OrangeRage wrote:
gibson wrote:go 4vil 600g imo

I think 600 wood is stronger overall because of shrine output + market ups followed by 600 coin to age up or spam is a lot stronger. 4 vill is more useful later when the villagers can scale with the market upgrades.

I know where you're coming from but he wouldn't be able to follow that up with market ups/shrines as easily or if you're assuming putting up shrine is pointless cuz he'll just siege them down right away?
you dont need wood lol, you can leave like 6 vils on wood and still be about ready to age by the time you gather your gold crates
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by OrangeRage »

gibson wrote:
OrangeRage wrote:
gibson wrote:go 4vil 600g imo

I think 600 wood is stronger overall because of shrine output + market ups followed by 600 coin to age up or spam is a lot stronger. 4 vill is more useful later when the villagers can scale with the market upgrades.

I know where you're coming from but he wouldn't be able to follow that up with market ups/shrines as easily or if you're assuming putting up shrine is pointless cuz he'll just siege them down right away?
you dont need wood lol, you can leave like 6 vils on wood and still be about ready to age by the time you gather your gold crates

You'll need a lot of population space for age 3 and a good economy to follow that up and 600 wood can prepare you much quicker for that + the xp it gives you for much needed shipment :smile:
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Germany yemshi
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by yemshi »

Either do dyddyd build or cons rush.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by gibson »

OrangeRage wrote:
gibson wrote:
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you dont need wood lol, you can leave like 6 vils on wood and still be about ready to age by the time you gather your gold crates

You'll need a lot of population space for age 3 and a good economy to follow that up and 600 wood can prepare you much quicker for that + the xp it gives you for much needed shipment :smile:
you have both lol. You easily be at like 140 shrine pop with all tier one market ups a few tier 2 market ups at like 8ish minutes
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China fei123456
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by fei123456 »

it depends
600w 600g 600w: fastest semiff, less eco
600w 4v 600g: normal semiff with a few units to defend/raid
600w 4v 600w: eco semiff, don't train age 2 units, age up after 4v

you can go nagi+ashi in age 3 but you'll need to outmass him. or you can try mass ashi+4 flaming arrows. with proper micro he can't kill your cannons easily.
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by OrangeRage »

Couprider wrote:it depends
600w 600g 600w: fastest semiff, less eco
600w 4v 600g: normal semiff with a few units to defend/raid
600w 4v 600w: eco semiff, don't train age 2 units, age up after 4v

you can go nagi+ashi in age 3 but you'll need to outmass him. or you can try mass ashi+4 flaming arrows. with proper micro he can't kill your cannons easily.

Gibson says you should ship 4 vill first
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China fei123456
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by fei123456 »

OrangeRage wrote:
Couprider wrote:it depends
600w 600g 600w: fastest semiff, less eco
600w 4v 600g: normal semiff with a few units to defend/raid
600w 4v 600w: eco semiff, don't train age 2 units, age up after 4v

you can go nagi+ashi in age 3 but you'll need to outmass him. or you can try mass ashi+4 flaming arrows. with proper micro he can't kill your cannons easily.

Gibson says you should ship 4 vill first

why? with 600w first you can either build rax stable market for a quick start, or just turn it into 180+ pop shrines for an insane boom.
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Re: [RE] Japan vs China

Post by Hazza54321 »

600w 4v 600g is totally fine, get a tp with 600w go as greedy as possible to get xp for 600g then go ashi naginata flaming arrow, id wall the front of ur base in transition to 3rd, get bows from cons then ally with jap, arrows first then close combat the adapt

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