No Flag umeu
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21 Nov 2016, 12:43

Dsy wrote:But even if he wanna click on 5:10 then he cant build tp.
And even if he clicks 5:10 im not sure 4 huss can save his life.
Btw H2o had bad deck, he had no rodeleros in colo...


you dont know what you are talking about.

1) he got 225w = free tp. So the tp is totally irrelevant this game to his age up time.
2) you can always click up at 5.15 with a tp and 16v if you macro correctly and have a normal hunt + mine in base. The recs with proof are on RTS-sanctuary if you want. We have had this discussion ages ago during pkclan tournaments =_=

dont repeat stuff thats already proven to be bs.
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Netherlands Jerom
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21 Nov 2016, 12:58

So this thing I was trying was doing consulate rush but then with otto consulate so you just get the gardeners instead of redcoats. Seems that strat could easily transition into eco semi FF with some nice agra fort map control and I'd not be surprised if that could beat what rapha did. What do others think of this idea?

Also I think this series was won because raphael had some pretty neat strats while h2o's where rather uninspired.

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Hungary Dsy
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21 Nov 2016, 13:00

Without tresures you cant even age up before 3 min.
Okey you can say you usually gather tresures with spain so you can hit 2:30 around. And then you can 5:10. But still its perfect micro plus even if you do im not sure it beats otto jan rush. Just one litle mistake and you lose 10-15 sec which leads to a normal age up... It cant be a strong plan in a torunament game i guess.
No Flag umeu
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21 Nov 2016, 13:01

Here, for those who dont want to believe it. Here is a treasureless (I only took the small tres in base, 30c, 40f) 15v>16v FF with age up time to fortress of 6.58. I have a tp as well. at 6.58 u have 4/5 dogs, 7rods/8pike, 4 huss and 6 mm. And a shipment ready when you hit fortress. This is about 30-35 unit pop for otto at that time vs about 25 unit pop for spain, counting dogs as 1 pop but not counting tc and tower fire. They will however have 10 pop otw within 40 sec.

If you get any decent tres, you can even make a 17th vil and do exactly the same. And no, cutting vils when you dont have idle time is usually not bad, and vs an all in rush, cutting vils is necessary most of the time. You will still be ahead anyway.

This was my first try btw. It's just so easy to do on the EP maps where your hunts and mines arent 10km away from your tc. Ofc, if you have to walk for your 1st or 2nd hunt, or even for your mine if u have to gather coin, then ye, it will be hard to pull off without tres. but usually any food wood or coin tres can compensate any macro mistakes you make.

If you have h2o tier vil defense, you should never lose in this mu even imo. But his heart wasnt in it anymore and he doesnt have that much experience in this mu.
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No Flag umeu
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21 Nov 2016, 13:01

Dsy wrote:Without tresures you cant even age up before 3 min.
Okey you can say you usually gather tresures with spain so you can hit 2:30 around. And then you can 5:10. But still its perfect micro plus even if you do im not sure it beats otto jan rush. Just one litle mistake and you lose 10-15 sec which leads to a normal age up... It cant be a strong plan in a torunament game i guess.


I just proved you wrong.
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No Flag umeu
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21 Nov 2016, 13:02

Jerom wrote:So this thing I was trying was doing consulate rush but then with otto consulate so you just get the gardeners instead of redcoats. Seems that strat could easily transition into eco semi FF with some nice agra fort map control and I'd not be surprised if that could beat what rapha did. What do others think of this idea?

Also I think this series was won because raphael had some pretty neat strats while h2o's where rather uninspired.


I've tried it, its fine, but ofcourse your sepoy wont be as beefy. For defending, I would prefer this variation tbh.
I kissed a girl and I liked it
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I kissed a girl just to try it
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New Zealand zoom
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21 Nov 2016, 13:04

duiuiuui wrote:The name is too long, will lead to the video can not see。
Try renaming (changing/editing/shortening the name) after downloading.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
Germany lordraphael
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21 Nov 2016, 13:26

Jerom wrote:So this thing I was trying was doing consulate rush but then with otto consulate so you just get the gardeners instead of redcoats. Seems that strat could easily transition into eco semi FF with some nice agra fort map control and I'd not be surprised if that could beat what rapha did. What do others think of this idea?

Also I think this series was won because raphael had some pretty neat strats while h2o's where rather uninspired.

funnily enough i didnt prepare for most of those mu. I mean i did rewatch all of h2o azzy mirrors and I did play 2 or 3 otto vs spain ( altho you dont really need practice for that build lol and in general it was a huge gamble on H2o being to greedy. That build doesnt work if you just send CM or do what umeu said ) so thats preparation if you want it. But apart from that I played none of my prepared mus . I prepared india- brits, russia- dutch, ger -spain and russia-spain. and tested a few other mus like dutch port etc. I tried to get that ger vs spain on highplains i could have gotten india vs brits on indonesia and also russia dutch on kamtschatka but i lacked the confidence to go through with it, despite having reasonable results in the practice games.
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
No Flag musketjr
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21 Nov 2016, 14:46

i think this series shows that @aizamk is a very bad player
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Finland princeofkabul
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21 Nov 2016, 15:01

Gotta love to see the dbl rax jan rush that I showed to somp to beat mongo lawl. nooby and cheesy builds r the best when nobody expects them at this level anymore.
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No Flag musketjr
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21 Nov 2016, 15:08

aoe players are really snobbish about cheesy strats

like half the fun with sOs was people doing all these intricate builds and sOs comes in and cheeses them all to death, and it's awesome. and it can just be a good counter (like rapha saying he gambled on no cm vs jan spam)
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21 Nov 2016, 15:12

musketjr wrote:aoe players are really snobbish about cheesy strats

like half the fun with sOs was people doing all these intricate builds and sOs comes in and cheeses them all to death, and it's awesome. and it can just be a good counter (like rapha saying he gambled on no cm vs jan spam)
Maybe it's just age but he seems to be losing his touch. Ever since he beat life awhile back he's done pretty mediocre.
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Italy Garja
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22 Nov 2016, 18:35

India dutch imo you need cav so either you set cons on otto or you send 4 sowar instead of 5 sepoy. And in any case it is all about how well you transition from the rush to the following timing with sepoy and sowar. Also switching to gurka and zambs is kinda a mistake, sepoy and upped sowars are insane and just powerplay better.
Karni ff (no point in making units if Dutch doesnt do it first) is good as long as you go trickle+300exp and use the 500g+500w (4v might work as well instead).

Aztecs mirror was just very odd fb war. Coyo+mace cards is just strictly superior as long as you get the most out of that combo.

As for cheese strats is more like that with a bo9 and 14 civs there is just too much to prepare that you cant know MUs well enough unless you have knowledge from the past. Otto 2x jans allows only 2-3 defenses and only 1 is based on common sense (colo play with xboss and even then it is not easy if Otto adapts adding abus).
Current rules do increase MU variety but at the price of MU depth.
No Flag umeu
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22 Nov 2016, 18:49

dbl rax bow can win vs dbl rax jan but i dont like it, because if otto is smart they will adapt when they come in, send 700c and age with the 600f 700c shipment. The xplorer shouldve scouted whats happening by that time. I don't think spain will be able to adapt vs that fast enough. They are too slow to age, and won't have enough huss to kill the falcs.
I kissed a girl and I liked it
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I kissed a girl just to try it
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It felt so wrong, it felt so right
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France Diarouga
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22 Nov 2016, 20:14

I agree with what MusketJR says, aoe players are very snob, and H2O in particular would never do a double jan nor send CM, and in some situations if you don't send CM, it's really hard to hold.
No Flag umeu
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22 Nov 2016, 21:05

well to be fair, in sc2 most cheese relies on going unscouted. In aoe most cheese isnt actually cheese, its just broken (depends on the mu ofc, some deal better with it than others). It doesnt matter if you scout it or not lol, a jan rush is going to be just as hard to hold, because the counter system in aoe is imperfect.
I kissed a girl and I liked it
Popped her cherry with my chapstick
I kissed a girl just to try it
I hope my wife don't mind it
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Poland pecelot
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22 Nov 2016, 21:33

Diarouga wrote:aoe players are very snob

:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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22 Nov 2016, 22:34

musketjr wrote:aoe players are really snobbish about cheesy strats

like half the fun with sOs was people doing all these intricate builds and sOs comes in and cheeses them all to death, and it's awesome. and it can just be a good counter (like rapha saying he gambled on no cm vs jan spam)

Isnt that a general issue in the "western gaming society" ? Atleast in sc2 wings of liberty, foreigners werent really liked when they mostly executed all ins/cheesy strats, thus players tried to play a good looking style. While koreans didnt really care and just played efficiently, trying to win.

Edit: It also appears to me that the japanese aoe3 community, doesn't really mind lame strats, while outside of japan you see less lame strats. That's what I observed on QS.
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Poland pecelot
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27 Nov 2016, 12:30

yeah, it seems that jp community doesn't care that much about the balance, hence they don't play on EP/don't put their own efforts into patching the game, and like abusing bugs by the looks of things, like the almighty Aztec FI... :hmm:
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