india vs china

[deleted_user0]

Has anybody tried using Otto cons with the 300e rush instead?
I feel the key in this mu is to kill the summer palace units, invite sentries and irregulars for little damage and to not let China stack shipments

I have actually & the 3 hus are really useful but you sacrifice 10% hp on all units which is part of the reason the consulate rush is pretty strong, but you do make sending cho ko harder or not even a option. It is better becuase of this imo,(maybe someone else knows better) and you can run the hus to check for vills he ran to build rax/villages or even the wonder. Plus with the otto consulate you can get the 4 vills sooner which is nice.

Cons rush is too slow tbh. They can just age normally, send 9 pike and age 8 skir, and they will be up 7.30 to send redcoats etc. also mm + disciple and monk tank cav

[princeofkabul]

Has anybody tried using Otto cons with the 300e rush instead?
I feel the key in this mu is to kill the summer palace units, invite sentries and irregulars for little damage and to not let China stack shipments

I have actually & the 3 hus are really useful but you sacrifice 10% hp on all units which is part of the reason the consulate rush is pretty strong, but you do make sending cho ko harder or not even a option. It is better becuase of this imo,(maybe someone else knows better) and you can run the hus to check for vills he ran to build rax/villages or even the wonder. Plus with the otto consulate you can get the 4 vills sooner which is nice.

Cons rush is too slow tbh. They can just age normally, send 9 pike and age 8 skir, and they will be up 7.30 to send redcoats etc. also mm + disciple and monk tank cav

how is 6:30 pushing slow though.

[fei123456]

how is 6:30 pushing slow though.

watch the tournament game mongo10 vs somppukunkku
somppu push at 6:30, mongo reach fortress at 6:40

[__Uhlan__]

how is 6:30 pushing slow though.

watch the tournament game mongo10 vs somppukunkku
somppu push at 6:30, mongo reach fortress at 6:40

Yea but if it's a nice timing that he can't hold being a minute later is ok. But yea I agree standard 12 sepoy v china is just better.

[deleted_user0]

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Has anybody tried using Otto cons with the 300e rush instead?
I feel the key in this mu is to kill the summer palace units, invite sentries and irregulars for little damage and to not let China stack shipments

I have actually & the 3 hus are really useful but you sacrifice 10% hp on all units which is part of the reason the consulate rush is pretty strong, but you do make sending cho ko harder or not even a option. It is better becuase of this imo,(maybe someone else knows better) and you can run the hus to check for vills he ran to build rax/villages or even the wonder. Plus with the otto consulate you can get the 4 vills sooner which is nice.

Cons rush is too slow tbh. They can just age normally, send 9 pike and age 8 skir, and they will be up 7.30 to send redcoats etc. also mm + disciple and monk tank cav

how is 6:30 pushing slow though.

Cuz China will be aging already by then, in fact, if they put 8 on wonder they might be Like 45 sec away from aging by the time u are in their base. They will also already have 700w on the floor if they did to start, and if they play smart, hidden vills will build village and cons so they won't get popped. They should also already have enough food for 2x mm and some disciple. Aka everything they need to hold. A 12 sepoy rush hits 1 min earlier and will keep the pressure. This is key cuz it prevents China from getting 700c ez at times or atleast the 700w

[Garja]

Cons rush with 4v buikding karni mata is just as fast as agra rush with 1-2 vills on wonder. I normally do that bur I forgot vs Aiz. It is better imo since you are going to build the cons anyway and karni is just better
You produce more and get xp in return so compensate for no tp. After 3 huss and trickle younsend GFA for 4v then switch to french cons for 500w and then to Brits at about 10 min.

[deleted_user0]

Cons rush with 4v buikding karni mata is just as fast as agra rush with 1-2 vills on wonder. I normally do that bur I forgot vs Aiz. It is better imo since you are going to build the cons anyway and karni is just better
You produce more and get xp in return so compensate for no tp. After 3 huss and trickle younsend GFA for 4v then switch to french cons for 500w and then to Brits at about 10 min.

Nah it simply doesn't cuz u have to ship the export, ally to a civ and only then train the unit from cons. You also have to build the rax now before you can train units. There is now way its as fas as a 12 sepoy rush which 10 sepoy arrive within 40 sec of aging and can go asap. What u say is atleast 20 to 30 seconds slower and not to mention a lot weaker... you lack any siege to do shit and you can't even 1 shot vils with 5 sepoy

Such a cons build is fine I guess in other mus tho. Specially when you defend its good. Make 10 sepoy, 300xp for Huss and then send 4 sower or 5 sep and u hold anything basically

[Garja]

You age up 20 secs faster cuz 2 more vills and no walking time (you save about 5 secs just due to karni being smaller and in base).
And it is not weaker at all because the push is only meant to delay the age up and firce a reaction. You should never park the units sieging in his base imo.
And the follow up is better with karni and cons up aleady.

[fei123456]

You age up 20 secs faster cuz 2 more vills and no walking time (you save about 5 secs just due to karni being smaller and in base).
And it is not weaker at all because the push is only meant to delay the age up and firce a reaction. You should never park the units sieging in his base imo.
And the follow up is better with karni and cons up aleady.

does this really work vs CHINA? if you are one age behind and you doesnt hurt him much you just cant win imo. 4v 500w are just of no use then.

[deleted_user0]

There is no way it should work. Slow sepoy rush already sux vs China any way, the only scary thing is 10/10. Tho ofc Garja will deny it, but who cares.

[Garja]

1010 sux ofc.
It is not about rushing. There is no real rush that works vs ff. With India you simply get good eco and good combo in colo with the perk of being aggressive early on. That's why it can work.

[drsingh]

. There is no real rush that works vs ff.

Why is that..
Isnt ff a boomy strat. And shud be countered with a rush while they are still vulnerable..
I'm just curious

[deleted_user0]

1010 sux ofc.
It is not about rushing. There is no real rush that works vs ff. With India you simply get good eco and good combo in colo with the perk of being aggressive early on. That's why it can work.

Yah, you are wrong ofcourse... since iro, Otto, Aztec and Russia rushes destroy china Ff. And 10/10 beats a straight Ff too.

Iro Aztec and Russia beat it cuz of the fast 3 unit combo, while Otto and sepoy beat it cuz of the speed of their push and high hp musk unit with just enough cav support. Brits rushes should work too actually

[Garja]

Iro just wins regardless. Straight up rushing is actually relatively risky (check gs-shmras game from PK for example).
Aztec rush doesnt really work if China adapts enough with walls, more dudes on wonder or simply all buildings very close to each other. CM card also kills the rush.
Otto wins exactly with one build in colonial. 5 jans 700w 3huss 700g etc. You rush with 10 jans + 3 huss follow up (for 8 chokus) and transition to the standard jan-abus-huss with stagecoach. With hormal jan-abus-huss China can get away with FF and win. This is very similar to India build.
Russia also wins with 5 coss 700w 700g stsgecoach build. Every other build just gives more chances to the Chinese player. I dont even know if the best build works vs any kind of FF adaptation.

. There is no real rush that works vs ff.

Why is that..
Isnt ff a boomy strat. And shud be countered with a rush while they are still vulnerable..
I'm just curious

No eco FF is more similar to a turtle strat than a boomy one. It is basically the equivalent of a unit-unit-unit rush but with age3 shipments. The moremall in is the ruhsh the easier is to counter it, unless we are talking sbout killing the TC to block the FF entirely. That is a general consideration, not just for China.

[deleted_user0]

Lol u are so crazy, let's each play China vs Russia Otto Aztec India, I'm quite sure you will fail if you play the way you describe above.

Iro indeed wins anyway, but a well played rush isn't risky at all. Just shouldn't open with cav but save it for 2nd or 3rd shipment

[momuuu]

I think on a livestock map with a 400w start 10/10 is easily your best option in this mu.

[Garja]

Nah 1010 is fast ye but it is way too all in. Like the power peak is just too early and then the follow up is nothing special.

[fei123456]

Nah 1010 is fast ye but it is way too all in. Like the power peak is just too early and then the follow up is nothing special.

the idea is, you cant let china reach age 3 and spam units safely. age 3 china just beat age 2 india NO MATTER how good indian eco is.

[Garja]

It doesnt if you just sent 8 chokus, 8 pikes, used 1k coin from the mine just to age and still took damage from the rush. Also the whole point here is how you rush. Most people just park their units under TC all the time and think they are doing good but in fact the FF guy is probably just trading even with the TC and then it doesnt matter if he ages 1 min later since there is no follow up from the rush.

[momuuu]

The 10/10 is not that all in garja, you cut maybe 2 villagers at worst on a crate start like 400w+100f.

[deleted_user0]

It doesnt if you just sent 8 chokus, 8 pikes, used 1k coin from the mine just to age and still took damage from the rush. Also the whole point here is how you rush. Most people just park their units under TC all the time and think they are doing good but in fact the FF guy is probably just trading even with the TC and then it doesnt matter if he ages 1 min later since there is no follow up from the rush.

You don't park them there. You siege the villages and prevent the 700w = China housed + all vils in tc = gg.

Wanna play these mus I suggested? Should really end this discussion £_£

[Garja]

How do you siege stuff if he sends 8 chokus first. Also you are notmgoing to take down more than one village with a 1010.
I saw this many times, no need to play this again. Plus I have no intention to play this game at all after I uninstalled it.

[Garja]

The 10/10 is not that all in garja, you cut maybe 2 villagers at worst on a crate start like 400w+100f.

That's the very best India conditions possible. For fairness you should also consider best China options. Also the fact that you age up sooner doesnt automatically means it works better. Shipment rate remains the same and so is your eco at 4.10 or w/e age up time you manage to get with the 1010, so you are just not going to substain military production like you do with a slower age up.

[momuuu]

Youre basically contradicting yourself now.

[deleted_user0]

How do you siege stuff if he sends 8 chokus first. Also you are notmgoing to take down more than one village with a 1010.
I saw this many times, no need to play this again. Plus I have no intention to play this game at all after I uninstalled it.

Lol.. so i must've imagined it every time I saw 2 villages go down