india vs china

[Garja]

Or simply you are only considering the cases where opponents are bad and/or you get unusual good starting conditions. Also sieging down the villages isnt necessarily a win (not just with India)

[deleted_user0]

Nah I'm not. It's really not that hard, I'm not sure why you struggle in this mu with this, but maybe you simply don't know how to do it. I've also played as China and vs 10/10 u just struggle even with 8 bow first. Killing 2 villages is a win if you can prevent the 700w shipment From being sent or gathered. It's really simple, no pop space = no shipments and no free army from palace

But whatever, u don't even play this game anymore, and you are just clearly wrong here. We can end this pointless discussion =_=

[lemmings121]

Imo any delayed rush will fail, consulate hit by the time china is more then half way aged, and eco play for late colonial will fail too simply because china will have a similar mass in number with much better units.

not sure if 1010 or standard 12sep is better..

[momuuu]

Im happy to see increasing support for 10/10 rising again. Its not always terrible!

[evilcheadar]

You need to do a flail rush against China and knock down those villages. That way he will have issues getting shipments out once he's in fortress.

[deleted_user0]

but flails suck.

[Goodspeed]

Im happy to see increasing support for 10/10 rising again. Its not always terrible!

Indeed. Especially with a transition TP and a couple less sepoy the follow up is so much better. Feel like that's an overlooked build.

[tedere12]

yes, the flail rush can do a lot of damage to china, they might even lose a wonder

[Garja]

Im happy to see increasing support for 10/10 rising again. Its not always terrible!

Indeed. Especially with a transition TP and a couple less sepoy the follow up is so much better. Feel like that's an overlooked build.

Unfortunately there are basically no MUs that you win with TP theorethical advantage while there might be some tha you win with the practical advantage of getting full sepoy batches early on. This MU is an example.

[lemmings121]

wait wait, agra 1010 + a tp?

You probably will have zero sepoys on first batch

[__Uhlan__]

wait wait, agra 1010 + a tp?

You probably will have zero sepoys on first batch

yea that seems not viable, idk how you would be able to get more then 2 sepoy out first batch and at that point might as well not 10/10.

[lordraphael]

well its goodspeed. He says tp are not OP yet all he does is spamming tps ingames. So either hes playing suboptimal strats or hes actually thinking that TPs are OP.

[Goodspeed]

TPs are strong just not necessarily a balance problem. I also build a market every game.

[Goodspeed]

wait wait, agra 1010 + a tp?

You probably will have zero sepoys on first batch

yea that seems not viable, idk how you would be able to get more then 2 sepoy out first batch and at that point might as well not 10/10.

You'd get 3, sometimes 2, sometimes 4. Even just 10 sepoys are still pretty scary so early in the game, and the minute faster second colonial shipment makes your follow up much stronger. Depends on the MU of course.

[__Uhlan__]

wait wait, agra 1010 + a tp?

You probably will have zero sepoys on first batch

yea that seems not viable, idk how you would be able to get more then 2 sepoy out first batch and at that point might as well not 10/10.

You'd get 3, sometimes 2, sometimes 4. Even just 10 sepoys are still pretty scary so early in the game, and the minute faster second colonial shipment makes your follow up much stronger. Depends on the MU of course.

True, I'll have to give it a try.

[lemmings121]

Makes sense. If you get 3 out is indeed good..

[momuuu]

Im happy to see increasing support for 10/10 rising again. Its not always terrible!

Indeed. Especially with a transition TP and a couple less sepoy the follow up is so much better. Feel like that's an overlooked build.

So lets look at the 10/10. You will need to gather a lot of wood in transition, you need two houses after all and need to start vill production again. You also have to get enough food/coin for a 5 sepoy batch. Lets now look at your suggestion: add a tp. Its seems very stupid to me. Youre doing a low eco age up so that you can do a sepoy rush that isnt actually faster than the standard age up with tp.

So no, its not being overlooked. Its simply a stupid idea.

[fei123456]

cows/sheeps/treasures can make your 11/10 build smooth like silk. if you don't have any of them, a normal age up may be better imo.

[Goodspeed]

Im happy to see increasing support for 10/10 rising again. Its not always terrible!

Indeed. Especially with a transition TP and a couple less sepoy the follow up is so much better. Feel like that's an overlooked build.

So lets look at the 10/10. You will need to gather a lot of wood in transition, you need two houses after all and need to start vill production again. You also have to get enough food/coin for a 5 sepoy batch. Lets now look at your suggestion: add a tp. Its seems very stupid to me. Youre doing a low eco age up so that you can do a sepoy rush that isnt actually faster than the standard age up with tp.

So no, its not being overlooked. Its simply a stupid idea.

How would it not be faster than the standard age? You are still aging up very early and will have sepoys in his base at the same time as you otherwise would, just a little less. Do you really need all 12?
Yes you would need to gather 200w instead of food and gold, which means you will have less sepoy. 2 less, in most cases. In most match ups I wouldn't mind that trade. The TP speeds up your build order a lot. Suddenly your build doesn't fall flat on its face after the initial rush. I mean without the TP it's damn awkward, it feels like you're waiting for that next shipment for ages.

I understand that you don't like the build but do you think you could find a way to be a little less rude about it?

[fei123456]

1. without proper treasure hunting you won't have sepoy in 1st batch at all. maybe you're good at macro?
2. A tp DOES speed up your later shipments a lot. however, 9 sepoy IS quite different from 12 sepoy. Your opponent have tc fire, monk, mm etc, and 2-3 extra sepoy is very important in this situation: without them you'll have to retreat, stop your early pressure, and the game will be quite different then. tp is not the only xp income, killing more units give you more xp too, and hurt your opponent more.

[Goodspeed]

1. without proper treasure hunting you won't have sepoy in 1st batch at all. maybe you're good at macro?

Why not? The TP is 300-something vill seconds. A 5 sepoy batch is 800 VS. So if you can get 5 sepoy out without the TP, then you would get about 3 out with the TP. 2 with bad treasures, 4 with good tres.

2. A tp DOES speed up your later shipments a lot. however, 9 sepoy IS quite different from 12 sepoy. Your opponent have tc fire, monk, mm etc, and 2-3 extra sepoy is very important in this situation: without them you'll have to retreat, stop your early pressure, and the game will be quite different then. tp is not the only xp income, killing more units give you more xp too, and hurt your opponent more.

In a lot of match ups you would run into a wall and minutemen, and the most XP you'll get is a house or a military building. If you're lucky a vill or two. While it's true that in some cases the 2 extra sepoy will make a big difference, I think in most cases the TP is more important.

[momuuu]

Show hidden quotes

Im happy to see increasing support for 10/10 rising again. Its not always terrible!

Indeed. Especially with a transition TP and a couple less sepoy the follow up is so much better. Feel like that's an overlooked build.

So lets look at the 10/10. You will need to gather a lot of wood in transition, you need two houses after all and need to start vill production again. You also have to get enough food/coin for a 5 sepoy batch. Lets now look at your suggestion: add a tp. Its seems very stupid to me. Youre doing a low eco age up so that you can do a sepoy rush that isnt actually faster than the standard age up with tp.

So no, its not being overlooked. Its simply a stupid idea.

How would it not be faster than the standard age? You are still aging up very early and will have sepoys in his base at the same time as you otherwise would, just a little less. Do you really need all 12?
Yes you would need to gather 200w instead of food and gold, which means you will have less sepoy. 2 less, in most cases. In most match ups I wouldn't mind that trade. The TP speeds up your build order a lot. Suddenly your build doesn't fall flat on its face after the initial rush. I mean without the TP it's damn awkward, it feels like you're waiting for that next shipment for ages.

I understand that you don't like the build but do you think you could find a way to be a little less rude about it?

If youre adding a tp you should just slow age, i bet thats actually almost faster in practise. Besides, 10/10 is only good on livestock maps imo, which i already mentoined before.

[fei123456]

Disagree. If i decide to build tp i prefer a slow age up. Age up fast: bad eco; Build tp: not strong military. I dont know why should i go 10/10 and send sepoy first then.

[Garja]

Ye 1010 only perk is to have military out faster to "lame out" the aggression. The supposed earlier shipments is a very negligible advantage in basically every MU since you can't engage a boom race anyway out of a 1010 agra. And as for 1010 karni the slow version with 4v in wonder is strictly superior.

[lemmings121]

GS convienced me enough to actually test it, i'm still not convinced that its superior to the standard 1010, but no point in ignoring the bo. i'll give it a go sometime..