india vs china

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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: india vs china

Post by Goodspeed »

Guys explain to me how the slow age would be faster than a 10/10 with trans TP? The only difference between the 12 sepoy rush and the 10 sepoy rush with TP is the TP and the 2 less sepoy. They hit at the exact same time.

@momuuu Indeed 10/10 only seems good on livestock maps because you desperately need XP for that second colonial shipment. That's why the TP is strong.

Again I'm not saying it's superior in every match up, just that I think it's overlooked. A 12 sepoy rush is great but often 10 is enough, and the weakness of the 10/10 sepoy rush is its follow up which the TP improves immensely.
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Re: india vs china

Post by Garja »

1010 with TP is less than 10 sepoy because you also need a house or two. The first batch alone is gonna be 2 sepoynonky followed by other uncomplete batches. Even with the slow age with TP can be challenging at times to get constant 5 sepoy out early on.
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Re: india vs china

Post by Goodspeed »

Garja wrote:1010 with TP is less than 10 sepoy because you also need a house or two.
?
You need those houses either way.
You are losing 348 vill seconds to gather for the TP (200/0.575). This is roughly 2 sepoys (180/0.84 + 60/0.6 = 314) which means you will have 2 less sepoys give or take one. There is no other difference between the builds. Following batches will be just as incomplete as they would be if you didn't build the TP.
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Re: india vs china

Post by Garja »

Yes you do but with slow age younhave abiut 3-4 vills more, plus more buffer to get res for batches. 1010 TP is extremely squeezed. Lately I was even skipping it with sliw agra rush simply because getting full batches is way more important when rushing (and each extra produced unit is 12 xp anyway).
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: india vs china

Post by Goodspeed »

Why are you comparing to slow age?
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Re: india vs china

Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:Yes you do but with slow age younhave abiut 3-4 vills more, plus more buffer to get res for batches. 1010 TP is extremely squeezed. Lately I was even skipping it with sliw agra rush simply because getting full batches is way more important when rushing (and each extra produced unit is 12 xp anyway).

Why did you uninstall?
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: india vs china

Post by Garja »

ovi12 wrote:Why did you uninstall?

Can't afford to waste time playing the game.
Goodspeed wrote:Why are you comparing to slow age?

Because it's the same thing but better?
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Re: india vs china

Post by deleted_user0 »

Poor gs lol
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Re: india vs china

Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Why did you uninstall?

Can't afford to waste time playing the game.
Goodspeed wrote:Why are you comparing to slow age?

Because it's the same thing but better?

Did something new come up in your life that takes time, or you just decided its a waste of time in general?
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: india vs china

Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Why did you uninstall?

Can't afford to waste time playing the game.
Goodspeed wrote:Why are you comparing to slow age?

Because it's the same thing but better?

Did something new come up in your life that takes time, or you just decided its a waste of time in general?
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Re: india vs china

Post by momuuu »

If you're doing a 10/10 on a no livestock map with 10 (9 is also a realistic one, maybe more so) sepoy then you apperantly dont know that you can also do a slow agra + TP + market + 9 sepoy.
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Re: india vs china

Post by _H2O »

Or you could just age up normally and still build a tp in transition perhaps with more vils in the wonder. 10/10 for eco almost had to be sub optimal.
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Re: india vs china

Post by Goodspeed »

Jerom wrote:If you're doing a 10/10 on a no livestock map with 10 (9 is also a realistic one, maybe more so) sepoy then you apperantly dont know that you can also do a slow agra + TP + market + 9 sepoy.
You do 10/10 if you want to be fast. You add the TP if the follow up is more important than the last 2 sepoy. The slow age build isn't in the picture here, it's like a minute slower so entirely different rules apply. But yeah I would prefer it almost always, for the record.
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Re: india vs china

Post by momuuu »

I think 10/10 is merely good with livestock, and then preferably a 400w start. if youre going 10/10 with a TP you can just do slow age but put some extra vills on the wonder, if you're doing a 10/10 with 9-10 sepoys just for the follow up then you don't really do anything well.
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Re: india vs china

Post by deleted_user0 »

you should easily get 4 sepoy out with mediocre tres tbh, its the second batch which you will find hard to get more than 3 sepoy. i think the strat is solid, but i would actually use it when you need to defend against agressive civs which age up fast, such as iro, otto and aztec. The tp makes it easier to spam shipments in order to hold + it grabs a part of the tp line vs civs that like to upgrade to stagecoach, and the 10/10 neutralizes their fast age up and indias usually slow age up in the mu.
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Re: india vs china

Post by momuuu »

umeu wrote:you should easily get 4 sepoy out with mediocre tres tbh, its the second batch which you will find hard to get more than 3 sepoy. i think the strat is solid, but i would actually use it when you need to defend against agressive civs which age up fast, such as iro, otto and aztec. The tp makes it easier to spam shipments in order to hold + it grabs a part of the tp line vs civs that like to upgrade to stagecoach, and the 10/10 neutralizes their fast age up and indias usually slow age up in the mu.

Id just put 4 vills on agra then I think.
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Re: india vs china

Post by deleted_user0 »

u'd be 30 sec slower still tho, and in those mu's that's a big deal. Otherwise ye, i'd agree
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Re: india vs china

Post by momuuu »

No way Id 10/10 against otto though. Probably not against aztec or iro either.
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Re: india vs china

Post by deleted_user0 »

10/10 is the best way for india to play vs aztec and iro imo. In my experience i've always had the hardest time vs that, and it forces you to play specificially, because you can actually lose those mu's if you dont play for the 10/10. Iro beats 10/10 in the end anyway, but the standard agressive play isnt great vs it, nor is the eco play i like to do. And a 10/10 can straight up destroy a forward aztec warhut strat if they don't make puma. vs otto you'd probably be fine with a slower age up cuz the jan abus isn't that fast itself, and otto can't really do a rush with jans anyway.

but i just tested this strat, and you will have roughly the same amount of units and vils at 10 mins with the 10/10 as the normal opening but putting 4v on the wonder. but you are up around 4min with the 10/10 and around 4.30 with the normal opening + 4v wonder.
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Re: india vs china

Post by momuuu »

It makes no sense that having ~3 extra vills for 7 minutes results in no difference in mass.
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Re: india vs china

Post by Garja »

1010 is terrible vs Aztecs and vs Iro simply makes the choices of the other player easier.
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Re: india vs china

Post by deleted_user0 »

You usually say the opposite of the truth so its ez to know whats right when you join the discussion
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Re: india vs china

Post by deleted_user0 »

Jerom wrote:It makes no sense that having ~3 extra vills for 7 minutes results in no difference in mass.


It does, because you dont have that many vils more, its more like having 2 more vils. And because the 10/10 ages 30 sec faster it gets the 1v from the shipment 30sec faster but also the big trickle and the 4v from consulate. So while 10/10 is behind 2 vils in the end, tgeyre not behind 2 vils all the time, and this makes the difference much smaller than it seems. Tho, ofc the slow eco is a little bit better, its barely noticable. Mabe its a 3-4 sepoy difference, at best.
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Re: india vs china

Post by Garja »

rofl
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Re: india vs china

Post by fei123456 »

Depends on start crate. 11/10 is good, 10/10 is mediocre (but in some situations it really makes a big difference to train units earlier).
11/10 means you cut off 2 vills training. However you get these benefits:
1. Less vil seconds lost. 4 vills walk to the middle of the map, and spend 80 seconds building: this is a huge loss. If you do 11/10 you only need to put 1 vill forward, and you dont even need tp build the wonder with him.
2. Map control. Even on esoc maps, to get more resources is always good.
3. Stop a stagecoach boom. This is important. If you let your opponent get 3-4 tp stagecoach easily, even port/dutch can outmass india easily, let alone iro/otto.
4. Get big treasures. 320xp, 300w, 480xp... you can also get them with normal age up, but if your opponent doesnt have units then, it's safer.

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