Dolan wrote:deleted_user wrote:"Hacking" is really a misused word that gets thrown around too much but diarouga did post a picture of hitler-ryan on esoc's front page in the news subforum he didn't have access to and while he wasn't participating in whatever tournament was going on at the time it was done during a tournament during even a live esoc stream iirc. If not during very shortly after the finals of the 2nd chance tourney.
But that's just banter, tbh. How many times have you seen this comparison between Mancl and a dictator on this forum, it's been a commonplace joke (even though the comparison may not have been totally misplaced).
It is a joke, a joke making light of people who actually think Mancl is actually a dicktator (like you have just implied) or rather, it might have developed from a combination of Ryan's high standing, a product of the time and effort he has invested, and the relatively not-uncommon feelings of disdain towards him. One thing is true, though, it is not difficult to separate jokes made in jest from malicious remarks (much to the surprise of the internet who loves to cry, "JOKE!" at offensive statements). Diarouga's posts were of malicious intent. This really has not ever been debated, nor does it need to be; he has never contested its claim. It is clear the motive behind those pictures and accompanied messages were far from "banter: the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks." If you'd wish to defend Diarouga this is a rather weak point to take up.
deleted_user wrote:He comes into that stream and acts generally anti esoc walking a fine line between what he was saying and blantant, targeted remarks.
Dolan wrote:Since when is being anti-esoc a crime though. This isn't 1984.
I immediately followed this statement in my original post with "Annoying, but whatever." It is not a crime; I never said it was. If that was your interpretation I apologize for its muddied intent. The purpose of this sentence lies within the story and its build up and revelation of the post-2nd-chance-finals esoc website where hitler-ryan is staring into my soul.
deleted_user wrote:then going to esoc website afterwards and seeing hitler-ryan right there on the front page: my stomach just dropped and I felt like shit. It was such a back handed metaphorical slap to the face.
Dolan wrote:Slap on the face to you? But it was about somebody else.
This is a another weak argument. Are one's actions only ever felt by the individual they are directed at? If one is physically assaulted by another being is no one else able to intervene or feel compassion or want to remedy the issue? In this case, it was a slap to the face to everyone working on esoc, to donors, and to viewers who have made all this possible.
deleted_user wrote:I and many many others had been putting in a lot of work, perhaps more work than a hobby like this should require, and to see diarouga continuously try to sabatoge what we were doing, it felt terrible.
Dolan wrote:Maybe I don't know the whole context: was he part of the team so he could really disrupt the team's work or is this about him just saying stuff on the forum/stream?
I'm sorry if it appears I'm upset at Diarouga because he said some mean stuff in a stream I worked hard on. That's not exactly the point. Also, I'm not entirely sure what you are asking here. Diarouga was not a part of any esoc team at this point, he was causing strife within the administration by being a ban-dodging nuisance and general headache to everyone involved.
deleted_user wrote:And for many days, perhaps weeks, before this he had continued to spam the website with hitler-ryans and messages encouraging others to spam too and creating a technical behind the scenes issue trying to block his dozens and dozens of accounts from email-services and vpns which caused a temporary inability for legit new members to create forum accounts.
Dolan wrote:So he was being annoying to some people and tried to evade the ban. Not the first time someone tried to evade a ban.
The site admin could have simply enabled a security option in phpBB3 so that every new account created would have to be approved by an admin in order to get activated. It's tedious, but it would have solved the problem.
The ease of a solution is not what warrants the severity of an action. No one has ever ban dodged and spammed to the extent he did. It's the difference between shoplifting a pack of gum and 100 packs of gum. And then shoplifting again after being caught.
deleted_user wrote:And the worst thing is I'd be willing to bet dirouga reading this now would feel pride at causing strife within esoc and extra work for our staff and the reactions he's gotten from it as I'm not sure he has ever formally apologized excplicitly for his actions or if he has it has been reluctant and not the product of a coming to terms within himself and general remorse for his actions but rather to get into the ep team.
Dolan wrote:I think he appologised, either on Skype or in the Twitch chat. Realistically, since he's banned, how else and where else could he appologise? He has no means of communicating with you.
He has had constant contact with admins on skype. He was given permission to join the EP team and posted an apology in its subforum. It's not a bad apology but an apology is not omnipotent and he has since "acted up" for lack of a better term and ingnorance on my part on what he's been doing. However, afterwards he did ban dodge again and even though it was to post a nice pack of rec'd games for a VC defense it was still an intentional ban dodge; he knew what he was doing. He was well on track to becoming unbanned afaik.
deleted_user wrote:I struggle to find why the user who has broken the most site rules (arguably) should be allowed into its tournaments. This isn't like the PK clan tourney drama there is actual proof and evidence of his toxic behavior.
Dolan wrote:Because he's one of the top players and frankly the only reason ESOC tourneys are possible is thanks to donors and top players still being interested in participating. If there weren't big prizes, probably seasonal tourneys wouldn't generate much interest.
I admit, though, that I may not know the full extent of what diarouga did, so from what you're saying it doesn't seem like stuff that could have seriously threatened ESOC. I mean, you can't seriously try DDOSing the site, since it's hosted on Amazon's cloud services and they have plenty of DDOS mitigation measures. You'd be wasting your time trying that. So, I don't see how diarouga could have posed any serious threat to the site. It sounds more like he was being very annoying and persistent and managed to irk a lot of people.
He is one of the best players, and therein lies the problem, does this somehow make him exempt from his actions? If thebritish had done this it'd be gg no re. At the same time, diarouga has been hugely influential within EP and behind the scenes. This can also not be ignored. It's obviously a difficult decision and hugely complex. I mean at what point do statements said on skype carry over to esoc? He's repeatedly called a certain user a racial slur on skype and this doesn't really help the whole thing either.
I never once mentioned DDOSing. I don't know the technical behind-the-scenes know-how but I don't believe I ever accused him of anything he had not done in my original post.
Can there be "serious harm to the site" outside of DDOsing? Yes. Did diarouga's actions ever put the site technologically at risk? No. However, did his actions temporarily put esoc's integrity in jeopardy? Yes. Spamming harms the forum. Spamming with the intent to encourage others to spam harms the forum. Posting pictures of an admin's face on top of a vile human being and spamming it harms the forum. Ban dodging with some several dozens of accounts and continuing to attempt to bypass erected defenses harms the forum.
Dolan wrote:Also, I didn't argue he should be unbanned, but his ban should expire at some point. And imo he should be allowed to participate in tourneys, if the donors vote to allow him to.
I don't disagree entirely. I think there is indeed room for an unban in the future, but it is important to note there has already been room for an unban and he has already been unbanned before and violated that agreement. We aren't on 2nd chance, we're on the 3rd or 4th.
Lastly, there is some confusion about the severity of diarouga's actions. Obviously, to many, his actions are not serious at all and this can be debated I'm not saying it cannot. However I think there is some misrepresentation as, credit to the hardworking staff, his spam posts were almost all removed right away. The point of my above story is not to whine that someone said some naughtys naughtys in an esoc stream, it is an attempt to give a perspective from the POV of someone behind esoc, working very hard on its betterment and seeing the effects of a single individual set on disrupting and undermining everything so many people were pouring their free time and effort in, including the donors and viewers. This individual was attempting to completely disrupt the website they spent their hard-earned money on.