Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

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United States of America __Uhlan__
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by __Uhlan__ »

gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote:If anything this series would show dutch needs a buff.
You're trolling right?


I hope so.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by momuuu »

Mart just played shittily in g1, he'd have won by just sieging the tc to begin with. In game 4 however, I struggle seeing that as a fair match up.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by Goodspeed »

Dutch has always been one of Brit's easiest match ups. We can't base balance on counter civs or we would be buffing everything.
China I think also does pretty well against them because they outscale and Dutch can't seem to win early. But as you said your build wasn't optimal that game.

Still I marvel at your ability to create discussions about Dutch balance out of thin air @momuuu :P Best part is you didn't even start it, just your presence was enough.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by BrookG »

@Goodspeed just the name makes a thread explode into countless pages
Correlation doesn't mean causation.
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by gibson »

Jerom wrote:Mart just played shittily in g1, he'd have won by just sieging the tc to begin with. In game 4 however, I struggle seeing that as a fair match up.

Yea cause you losing one game where you got counter picked to a better player than yourself in an mu thats always been hard for dutch on a map where brit is overall the best civ in the entire game is reason to buff dutch.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by momuuu »

gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote:Mart just played shittily in g1, he'd have won by just sieging the tc to begin with. In game 4 however, I struggle seeing that as a fair match up.

Yea cause you losing one game where you got counter picked to a better player than yourself in an mu thats always been hard for dutch on a map where brit is overall the best civ in the entire game is reason to buff dutch.

Your comprehensive reading skills are subpar.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by gibson »

Jerom wrote:
gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote:Mart just played shittily in g1, he'd have won by just sieging the tc to begin with. In game 4 however, I struggle seeing that as a fair match up.

Yea cause you losing one game where you got counter picked to a better player than yourself in an mu thats always been hard for dutch on a map where brit is overall the best civ in the entire game is reason to buff dutch.

Your comprehensive reading skills are subpar.
exactly
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by rsy »

Jerom wrote:If anything this series would show dutch needs a buff.

Lmfao. :hehe:
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

Couprider wrote:650 res bank is not OP. but 130*4 xp is.
i would set bank limit back to 4, while adding a 5 hussar shipment (or 1 culverin shipment) to age 3.
I would make banks a bit cheaper like 250w 250f, but 4 banks, not 5. Also get something between the RE bank XP and the EP bank XP. Maybe also -100g crate start, +100w crate start. I think it would be a competitive civ, but not too good then
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by momuuu »

DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:
Couprider wrote:650 res bank is not OP. but 130*4 xp is.
i would set bank limit back to 4, while adding a 5 hussar shipment (or 1 culverin shipment) to age 3.
I would make banks a bit cheaper like 250w 250f, but 4 banks, not 5. Also get something between the RE bank XP and the EP bank XP. Maybe also -100g crate start, +100w crate start. I think it would be a competitive civ, but not too good then

They'd be much better than this. Given that you seem to think Dutch is OP, I dont even get this suggestion.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by Goodspeed »

DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:
Couprider wrote:650 res bank is not OP. but 130*4 xp is.
i would set bank limit back to 4, while adding a 5 hussar shipment (or 1 culverin shipment) to age 3.
I would make banks a bit cheaper like 250w 250f,
A Dutch player's wet dream. They'd be top civ with that change.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by gibson »

250w 250f banks lul
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by rsy »

gibson wrote:250w 250f banks lul

250 250 is good yeah. don't u know how hard it is for dutch to make banks! I mean it isn't like u can have 5 banks at 6.30 on this patch. Oh wait :hmm:
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by momuuu »

If anything this series shoes that dutch is weak. Why:
- apperantly in dutch versus china incorrectly interpreting china's build is generally a gamelosing mistake, as shown by these games. The only reason I won is because gs made mistakes afterwards and had poor decisionmaking
- dutch has at least a weak match up vs british.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by momuuu »

rsy wrote:
gibson wrote:250w 250f banks lul

250 250 is good yeah. don't u know how hard it is for dutch to make banks! I mean it isn't like u can have 5 banks at 6.30 on this patch. Oh wait :hmm:

If youre losing to that youre generally just playing like a sergeant.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by rsy »

Jerom wrote:
rsy wrote:
gibson wrote:250w 250f banks lul

250 250 is good yeah. don't u know how hard it is for dutch to make banks! I mean it isn't like u can have 5 banks at 6.30 on this patch. Oh wait :hmm:

If youre losing to that youre generally just playing like a sergeant.

I was actually playing blackstar. Guess it is like playing serg vs captain.

Either way, a bank pays off for itself in 4 mins. U had a good chance vs goodspeed in that last game if u didn't send out all your hussars out to raid and proceed to lose them all twice over. Even 1 lts these days don't do such shit ass raids

I imagine having 14 hussars in the final fights would've helped u against those lbs way more than killing 3 vills. Oh and also not losing all ur artillery the way u did.

Edit: if anything, this series shows how much better gs is than u
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by gibson »

Jerom wrote:If anything this series shoes that dutch is weak. Why:
- apperantly in dutch versus china incorrectly interpreting china's build is generally a gamelosing mistake, as shown by these games. The only reason I won is because gs made mistakes afterwards and had poor decisionmaking
- dutch has at least a weak match up vs british.
there is nothing here that anyone who has the slightest idea about the game hasn't known for years. Yes not scouting and doing a completely wrong build should lose you the game. And Dutch, just like 10 or so other civs on EP has a weak match up vs brit.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

Maybe 300f 300w? 4 banks, not 5? The point is 5 banks is too good because they're able to get that quite early
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by momuuu »

DaRkNiTe1698 wrote:Maybe 300f 300w? 4 banks, not 5? The point is 5 banks is too good because they're able to get that quite early

Thatd be a buff. How do people even lose to 5 banks lol.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by momuuu »

gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote:If anything this series shoes that dutch is weak. Why:
- apperantly in dutch versus china incorrectly interpreting china's build is generally a gamelosing mistake, as shown by these games. The only reason I won is because gs made mistakes afterwards and had poor decisionmaking
- dutch has at least a weak match up vs british.
there is nothing here that anyone who has the slightest idea about the game hasn't known for years. Yes not scouting and doing a completely wrong build should lose you the game. And Dutch, just like 10 or so other civs on EP has a weak match up vs brit.

Jerom wrote:If anything this series would show dutch needs a buff.

In other words, to me this series shows little about balance except that dutch can struggle against brits. Like I said, your comprehensive reading skills could use some work.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by gibson »

Jerom wrote:
gibson wrote:
Jerom wrote:If anything this series shoes that dutch is weak. Why:
- apperantly in dutch versus china incorrectly interpreting china's build is generally a gamelosing mistake, as shown by these games. The only reason I won is because gs made mistakes afterwards and had poor decisionmaking
- dutch has at least a weak match up vs british.
there is nothing here that anyone who has the slightest idea about the game hasn't known for years. Yes not scouting and doing a completely wrong build should lose you the game. And Dutch, just like 10 or so other civs on EP has a weak match up vs brit.

Jerom wrote:If anything this series would show dutch needs a buff.

In other words, to me this series shows little about balance except that dutch can struggle against brits. Like I said, your comprehensive reading skills could use some work.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

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Post by gh0st »

Jerom wrote:If anything this series shoes that dutch is weak.

Well , you do realize that gs is a better much better player than you, right? & once you consider that this series doesn't proof shit. :flowers:
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by deleted_user0 »

rsy wrote:
Jerom wrote:
rsy wrote:250 250 is good yeah. don't u know how hard it is for dutch to make banks! I mean it isn't like u can have 5 banks at 6.30 on this patch. Oh wait :hmm:

If youre losing to that youre generally just playing like a sergeant.

I was actually playing blackstar. Guess it is like playing serg vs captain.

Either way, a bank pays off for itself in 4 mins. U had a good chance vs goodspeed in that last game if u didn't send out all your hussars out to raid and proceed to lose them all twice over. Even 1 lts these days don't do such shit ass raids

I imagine having 14 hussars in the final fights would've helped u against those lbs way more than killing 3 vills. Oh and also not losing all ur artillery the way u did.

Edit: if anything, this series shows how much better gs is than u


4 mins is a long time tbh. Purely in res, bank boom repays itself as one of the slowest booms. However, youre not taking xp into account, as it is one of the most valuable earky game resources, the buff to bank building xp is what made dutch better again. It basically speeds up their shipments by alot allowing to couple greedy openings with agression or counter-agression.

Im not sure if dutch need a buff but theyre still a hard civ to play right with a few weaknesses that can easily be exploited. That said this series probably says little ablut dutch overall strength as it involves 2 civs which i would probably select first as best civs to use vs dutch, with the addition of germany probably. Fact that jerom won one game shows as well that, while gs is obviously better, jerom is not much worse.
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by pecelot »

gh0st wrote:
Jerom wrote:If anything this series shoes that dutch is weak.

Well , you do realize that gs is a better much better player than you, right? & once you consider that this series doesn't proof shit. :flowers:

If that would be the case, Jerom couldn't take one game from GS, right? ;) I'd just be more careful when judging players' skills on one series — would you say H2O is much better than LordRaphael — and vice versa!? Jerom proved in the last tournament he's a very good player, I'm not sure why you all bring that up. Some people wanted to draw conclusions, and he just replied that those are very limited. :dry:
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Re: Jerom_ vs GoodSpeed

Post by gh0st »

pecelot wrote:
gh0st wrote:
Jerom wrote:If anything this series shoes that dutch is weak.

Well , you do realize that gs is a better much better player than you, right? & once you consider that this series doesn't proof shit. :flowers:

If that would be the case, Jerom couldn't take one game from GS, right? ;) I'd just be more careful when judging players' skills on one series — would you say H2O is much better than LordRaphael — and vice versa!?

lol i didnt get your logic behind that. Tedere took a game off kaiser & alligator off Uhlan. Things like these happens all the time.
pecelot wrote: Jerom proved in the last tournament he's a very good player, I'm not sure why you all bring that up. Some people wanted to draw conclusions, and he just replied that those are very limited. :dry:

I never even said he sucks or anything, you just made that up. Ofc he is a good player as he has proved, but drawing conclusions from a series where there is a skill gap isn't the best way to judge a civ is all m saying. + dutch vs brits has always been a hard mu for dutch imo, so cant say dutch needs a buff for that.

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