Happy 4-20

[evilcheadar]

Don't do weed, has links to memory loss and psychosis in some people.

[DivineFire]

Don't do weed, has links to memory loss and psychosis in some people.

Don't do ________, has links to ________ and ________ in some people.

Sounds like the format for garbage morning news health sections that old people ingest and then vomit on you unwantingly.

[Goodspeed]

but it feels to me like that's where society's headed.

Why do you think that? To me it feels like (at least in the Netherlands) we're heading the other way.

Just look at where we were 500 years ago, or at any mainstream religion (good examples of cultures that are living in the past). Modern society is very liberal relative to that, and I have no reason to believe the process will reverse.

[zoom]

No, but a lot more would and the toll on the healthcare system would be enormous, and such a progressive society would not deny users care.

Seems premature to talk about a future society that way. For all we know health care is completely automated.
I didn't mention a timespan...

Right, this is assuming that the abuse of the drug will cause death, loss of income & tax, as well as other societal costs. Assuming otherwise would be unrealistic.

[Goodspeed]

Lol I think we'll be able to afford it.
It seems to me you are limiting the timespan to a 100 years or so, or you vastly underestimate the potential of technology. The future of human society will look so wildly different from where we are now, it's silly to be talking about loss of income and taxes as factors that would matter at all. It seems likely that the word tax won't even exist.

Though as I mentioned earlier, it's likely that when the time comes for all drugs to be legalised that we'll have found a better drug than heroin, I'll give you that.

[zoom]

Lol I think we'll be able to afford it.
It seems to me you are limiting the timespan to a 100 years or so, or you vastly underestimate the potential of technology. The future of human society will look so wildly different from where we are now, it's silly to be talking about loss of income and taxes as factors that would matter at all. It seems likely that the word tax won't even exist.

Though as I mentioned earlier, it's likely that when the time comes for all drugs to be legalised that we'll have found a better drug than heroin, I'll give you that.

You could wait for an eternity of progressive and technological societal development and heroin with its current properties would still not be tolerated. It is simply too destructive to the human community for the community to tolerate it.

[Goodspeed]

It's only destructive to the user though. It's a very liberal concept to allow people to destroy themselves with highly addictive drugs, yes, but there's no reason why it wouldn't be tolerable for the society as a whole and therefore no reason why it would stay illegal.
But still this is all assuming we won't have invented better drugs by then.

[iNcog]

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[Goodspeed]

Drug usage is arguably not only dangerous for oneself, but to others as well.

It's basically suicide to use heroine, not sure why you'd argue otherwise.

Nobody is arguing using heroin is a good idea, the discussion is about whether it'll stay illegal. As for comparing it to suicide, you can scarcely outlaw that...

[spanky4ever]

Here is a bombshell: https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 7FFXu5sS3w

14 years after Decriminalizing ALL drugs in Portugal; there is less usage, less crime, less death related to drugs, less HIV. Instead of speculations, we have facts
So why should other countries do worse than Portugal if they legalize drugs 2??

https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... NiizY_iI5Q

[iNcog]

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[spanky4ever]

You make many nonsense arguments iNcog. Why should advertising be legal for Heroine?? In most countries advertising for cigarettes and alcohol is illegal!!
You can use the morality card and say that heroine is harmful, disgusting etc. The facts on the other hand, are pointing in another direction (Portugal).

When alcohol was illegal (in the 1920s, it didn't stop ppl from drinking. It fostered crime big time. I mean, what would the american mafia be without prohibition laws!

You can sit on your high horse and be morality police, or climb down and be realistic about it. Wake up and smell the bullshit

This link lists 12 negative effects of prohibition https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1WdJylZWvQ

Many of those effects are recognizable when it comes to drugs

[iNcog]

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[iNcog]

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[spanky4ever]

I can only say one thing to you Incog. Stop playing the morality card and stick to facts https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1WdJylZWvQ
Recognise the effects?? Same ones we have regarding drugs.
And your reference to discussion on the theoretical society?? Why not stick to the one we are living in instead! Makes discussion much more relevant - dont you think??

Btw; I thought you where an advocate for government interfering as little as possible in ppl lives?? Guess I got you wrong?

[spanky4ever]

How Portugal won the war on drugs: [video]https://youtu.be/vMh6zhBwX58[/video]

[spanky4ever]

[video]https://youtu.be/PbWpXYOg4OQ[/video]

Portugal used 90% on treatment - 10% on punishment.
In the USA its the opposit.

[iNcog]

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[spanky4ever]

Incog say: "It's not just that drugs are legal. What's especially important to take away is that:
- people are no longer penalized or incriminated for possession of drugs, but they are however brought in front of a commission,
- people are professionally helped when they try to quit,

In other words, the real reason why drug usage has gone down is that people find it much easier to get professional help when it comes to quitting. The fact that there is no penalty of possessing drugs also mean that people are much more likely to go seek out help in the first place.

It's not that drugs are legal. It's that people are provided with all the necessary help in order to quit drugs in the first place."

Its the combination of those things; removing of the stigma, providing help, And for some strange reason; it looks like drugs has lost some of the appeal when its no longer a crime to use it. The same things happen with alcohol when it was no longer illegal. People are strange beings - for sure!!

[iNcog]

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[howlingwolfpaw]

1. its not a drug, its a plant.
2. it has religious ceremonial purposes.
3. you have no right to make it illegal in first place because of inalienable rights for pursuit of happiness.
4. society has conditioned people to want to smoke through glamorization in media, and sells paraphernalia legally.
5. takes away the illegal drug cartels main money maker.
6. frees up millions wasted in court, lawyer, jail time etc....
7. provides medicine to millions who need and or want it.
8. much better than anti depressants.
9. energy and material uses galore.
10. stop impeding the growth of humanity and freedom and accept that it is part of this world as much as tobacco, alcohol etc...

[evilcheadar]

1. its not a drug, its a plant.
2. it has religious ceremonial purposes.
3. you have no right to make it illegal in first place because of inalienable rights for pursuit of happiness.
4. society has conditioned people to want to smoke through glamorization in media, and sells paraphernalia legally.
5. takes away the illegal drug cartels main money maker.
6. frees up millions wasted in court, lawyer, jail time etc....
7. provides medicine to millions who need and or want it.
8. much better than anti depressants.
9. energy and material uses galore.
10. stop impeding the growth of humanity and freedom and accept that it is part of this world as much as tobacco, alcohol etc...

What if my persuit of happiness involves tax evasion? Should that be made legal?

[howlingwolfpaw]

what do you think>?

[evilcheadar]

what do you think>?

I'm asking you, in light of point number 3

[howlingwolfpaw]

but to counter your argument, i need a reason why you are thinking about it. why are you interested in that part?