Learning English

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Poland pecelot
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Learning English

Post by pecelot »

This topic is rather for non-native English speakers. I wonder how some of you, such as @iNcog , @Jerom , @Goodspeed , @EAGLEMUT , @zoom and many others, developed such good English skills. In my country English is a second language for almost everyone, although sometimes people choose to learn German more. I hope you're all familiar with CEFR system, generally I would say that in Poland people mainly know it at B1/B2 level. They have learned the basic, but aren't so advanced in it.
In my highschool, which is one of the best out here, however, the English level is very high. In my year grup, consisting of over 100 pupils, there are 7 groups of English. The highest are at C2 level, the third and the fourth one (to which I belong) — at C1 level, the rest is pretty much at B2 level. My peers successfully pass CPE, CAE and FCE exams. I'll take the CAE exam at the beginning of June.
I feel like my collegues put some effort into actually learning English, whereas generally I think people at my age don't care that much about it. Of course I'm not saying that every Pole is such, there are a lot of people knowing English very well in my country, but I just think it's a general tendency.
Personally I've been learning this language since I was 6, but obviously the level was pretty low back then. It was my second language throughout my whole education (I'm 18 now, finishing the highschool) and I've never had any problems with learning it. I was doing well at school, but in comparison with other ones my level wasn't that high, which I realised when I came to my current highschool (2013). Since then, I feel I have developed a lot, especially in terms of speaking.
There was a period in my life (something like 2014—2015) when I was spending way too much time on Youtube, watching some dumb videos, but mainly in English. Later on I discovered ZeroEmpires' channel and found out that there still is a huge community of AoC players. I then came across Interjection's channel as well and started playing AoE3 in a less nooby way, I suppose... Anyway, I feel like listening to all the commentaries by Zak, Inter and Zuta, who are all native speakres, helped me a lot. A lot of common language and useful vocabulary is used in their videos, so later on I had no problems with communicating with other people on a regular basis. Most of the Facebook pages I follow are English as well. I also downloaded a dictionary on my mobile phone, so when I don't know a word I quickly check it and learn easily, which wasn't the case in the past ;p
All in all, I think I'm at the C1 level right now. I'll try to pass that CAE exam, like I mentioned. ESOC forums help a lot in this regard as well, since I write a lot here in English, sometimes pretty long posts.
So I'd like to know how have you guys learned English in your life? What is your CEFR level? Have you taken any language courses, learned everything at school or just individually at home? What is the average level of English in your country? Have you got any useful tips? Do you actually care about learning this particular language?
I'm looking forward to reading your answers! :D
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Learning English

Post by r4go »

when i was in hight school i did english but it was not important as it had to be, but now times are changed. Now school, university give more important to english. I learned my low english in holydays in Greece, when i went in London. I'm learning english there
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Re: Learning English

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

English class sucks dicks in France lol.
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Re: Learning English

Post by zoom »

pecelot wrote:This topic is rather for non-native English speakers. I wonder how some of you, such as @iNcog , @Jerom , @Goodspeed , @EAGLEMUT ...
OH THE SHADE!!
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Re: Learning English

Post by Hazza54321 »

yeah ive also had trouble speaking english
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Re: Learning English

Post by Durokan »

iNcog wrote:The Dutch just naturally all speak English for no reason, not sure why.


Not sure what it's like learning English for a non native speaker, but I would guess that dutch (and German) have a pretty substantial advantage for learning English as compared to other languages. I know for a fact that German and English share tons of roots and have loads of cognates. There are a bunch of tricks that I know, like changing a German V to an F, changing G to Y, changing T to D, etc, will make the language very easy. For instance, you can take the German word Tag (day) and change the T and G as described to have Day. You can change the g in "gestern" (yesterday) to a y to have "yestern" and you can guess the meaning. You can change Volk to Folk, Vier to Fier (four), etc. Almost every single word ending in an "ion" can be directly converted with a different pronounciation. (the T sound in all t-ion sounds the same as the z in Nazi, the short word for National, or "Nazional") There are many more easy cognates that I won't go into as this mainly relates to Dutch, where I don't know how many of these exist. I only assume most of these due because German and Dutch are pretty closely related. I can only assume this gives the Dutch an easier pass to the language than it does for Russian or Italian.

The same could be true for French, though I don't speak any french so I don't know.

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Re: Learning English

Post by Method_man714 »

Hazza54321 wrote:yeah ive also had trouble speaking english

English isnt our first language
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Re: Learning English

Post by zoom »

The answer that you are looking for is, that – yea, like Sweden before them – they do not dub foreign media. Also, they have Mart!
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Learning English

Post by EAGLEMUT »

A topic where I'm invited to gloat about my skills. Eggscellent!

Fact is, in my country the situation is very similar to what you describe here, perhaps worse. I would generally describe the knowledge of English around here at like A2. From what I've seen, most Czechs find the language boring or just hard to learn. There are also a lot of people here choosing German over English, which is arguably closer to the Czech language. I recall about 1/3 of my class in primary school chose German over English (we could only choose one or the other). So, yea, I would say the English level is generally not very high.

So how am I so damn good, you ask? Well, we have to start at the beginning.. my father was kind of into computers and got me into gaming at a very early age (I was like 5 years old, almost nobody even had a computer at that time). It shouldn't come as a surprise that I enjoyed gaming a lot and burned literally thousands of hours playing games such as Ceasar, RollerCoaster Tycoon, Seven Kingdoms (great RTS) and finally the "Age of" series. I've also had even more time for gaming than other kids, due to not attending Kindergarten almost at all. How is all this gaming relevant? It very much is, because I've already gained knowledge of hundreds of English words from playing these games before English classes were even introduced to us in school.
Story time. My mother says, when I first got into primary school, they were testing if the children can recognize letters, which were presented in a physical toy-like form. I proceeded to take the letter M, turned it upside down and said it's a W. The teachers were stunned, as the letter W is not actually used in any Czech word ever.

Okay, back to school. Due to my gaming history I had a nice headstart on all of my classmates as soon as I first stepped into the class, and I had no intention of not maintaining that headstart. I'll note my class at primary school also had a pretty good English teacher who would take no shit from anyone and really pushed us to learn something. Anyway, I continued my gaming tendencies and moved on to an MMORPG (Guild Wars, best game ever), where I was playing online with other living people at last. I was chatting in English on a daily basis now, combined with getting actual English classes at school. My level naturally skyrocketed. I was kind of bad at talking to people verbally so I wasn't hugely social with my Czech classmates - instead I have preferred playing games with people around the world and talking in English. I'd go as far as to say, on average, I've been using English more frequently than Czech, for years at least. I read all books in English, I watch all shows/movies in English (I don't watch Czech television at all), heck, I even often think in English. I mean like, I'm at a crossroads and in my head I think "yea, let's just go that way, seems like a good idea". More and more I find myself unable to find a word I'm looking for while talking in Czech, so I have to apologize and finish my sentence using an English word instead.

One more paragraph to wrap this up. There was an English competition held at my primary school (around 900 students at the time), and guess what, I've won it without even trying to. I moved on to face the best students of multiple other schools in the region and smashed them as well.. I was better at grammar, better at listening and understanding voice, better at everything.. only problem was that I just couldn't get myself to write any sort of essay or speak about a random topic due to my social awkwardness (I just couldn't do it in any language, was arguably even worse in Czech). So I, unable to form sentences of my own in my mind, have lost that round.
The highschools I went to afterwards were pretty terrible and English classes were no exception, didn't learn anything there. I did try to stay in shape through self-learning and also became a wiki editor for a time, with some 1500+ total edits made.
Now I've been out of school for almost four years and I actually just signed up for some English lessons last week, because I'm wondering how good I still am and whether I became rusty at some stuff or not.

tldr; I did not choose to be a genius, I was simply born one.
My quick tips: use the language in some way as often as possible; communicate with people online, watch tv shows, read books, try to understand songs, whatever you're into. You will pick stuff up, but if you stop actively using the language, you will forget.
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Re: Learning English

Post by momuuu »

I passed my CAE exam in 2012 I believe, being 0.2 points short of a CPE degree. I'm probably at CPE level right now with relative ease.

Posting lots on forums like agecomm was extremely beneficial for my english, aswell as spending many hours listening to english youtubers. Those enabled me to get my english close to native level I believe. The only aspect Im lacking in is speaking, since I practice that relatively infrequently. Something to improve on in the future.
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Re: Learning English

Post by BrookG »

Languages are to be spoken. If it is used only in the environment of a classroom, it can't have any great impact on you. You see the most people speaking English, in this case, have been close to the native-speakers, either through traveling to a country or on internet. My experience with learning portuguese can confirm that, a not so spreaded language in Europe. I had no idea of a single word in Portuguese, whereas in English I have FCE (B2). After living in Portugal for a year and regularly speaking, I reached B1 level. It's the same with English, unless you enhance your learning experience, it is not that easy to actually feel you know the language.

Good luck with your exams!
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Learning English

Post by deleted_user »

so this was pretty easy for me

im actually a native born speaker

have pretty gud english i think

why dont you all just try having english-speaking parents?

not that hard
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Re: Learning English

Post by momuuu »

I know the feeling Eaglemut describes where you occasionally think in English haha. I mix both english and dutch while thinking and occasionally even dream in English.

About Dutchies being good in English: I dont really know why we are, maybe its just coincidence that the aoe dutchies have pretty good english. I was personally never amazing at English in high school. I actually struggled quite a bit for the first three or four years of high school, as my starting level wasn't that high compared to others. At some point I really developed the feeling for the language by watching a ton of youtube commentaries about starcraft 2. I combined that with posting a lot on agecomm and speaking with native speakers quite frequently. Id never be ashamed to not know a word and would simply ask people to help me out if I made repetitive mistakes. I think Ive written more things in English than Dutch, especially since I post a lot on these forums. Ive probably heard more in English aswell, although that is easier since almost all tv shows are in English. Especially the listening to English speakers helped a lot in improving my English. At that point, the English classes didnt have much substantial to teach us anymore, theyd just have us read listen write or speak english. I wouldny speak english, but Id do all those other things in my free time. It was as if I had like 30 hours of English classes every week.

My English truly skyrocketed when I reached the point of actually thinking in English. At the start, you convert your language to English, which will make it quite a bit worse. When you slowly reach the step where the thoughts can form in English you'll quickly improve and approach native level I think. I reached that level relatively late compared to most Dutchies I think. Fortunately my English has improved a ton since due to using it on a daily basis.

Im still struggling with spelling, but its arguably as shitty as my dutch spelling. For some reason I cant really feel the spelling or something, and theres too many words to remember all of the spelling. That'll probably stay like it is right now, as I havent been able to improve my dutch spelling (which was in this state 10 years ago or so) much since it was at about this level.

So if you want to improve your english, go find some youtuber and watch all of his videos or sth. And make many posts on ESOC. If you dont really think in English yet, theres gonna be this click at some point which will quickly improve your English more than you can imagine :)
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Learning English

Post by momuuu »

My spelling is mostly fine but not as good as it could be. It just bugs me that I cant write a tournament preview without a small amount of mistakes sneaking their way in.
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Learning English

Post by pecelot »

zoom wrote:
pecelot wrote:This topic is rather for non-native English speakers. I wonder how some of you, such as @iNcog , @Jerom , @Goodspeed , @EAGLEMUT ...
OH THE SHADE!!


Haha, interestingly, I thought about you at school today :D Yeah, I forgot to mention your person :)

@EAGLEMUT , yeah, playing games helps. I played AoE2 when I was like 5 years old, but it was in Polish. Other games, however, were in English and I still remember some specific or characteristic vocabulary from them. Moreover, I find myself thinking in English more and more often, too. Vulgarisms sound a lot cooler in English than in Polish :D
Anyway, thanks for the reply, your story is very nice!

BrookG wrote:Languages are to be spoken. If it is used only in the environment of a classroom, it can't have any great impact on you. You see the most people speaking English, in this case, have been close to the native-speakers, either through traveling to a country or on internet. My experience with learning portuguese can confirm that, a not so spreaded language in Europe. I had no idea of a single word in Portuguese, whereas in English I have FCE (B2). After living in Portugal for a year and regularly speaking, I reached B1 level. It's the same with English, unless you enhance your learning experience, it is not that easy to actually feel you know the language.

Good luck with your exams!

I agree. My English lessons at school were usually „in Polish", but when I came to my current highschool, it changed and we could only speak English from then on. It really helped. It's not such a good of example, but I think it more or less confirms your point :)
Thanks!

iNcog wrote:Casting AOE3 was a fun way to pick it up again, shame that ESO is down all the time and that I can't do that anymore. This is why we need Voobly. :ship: :ship: :ship: :ship:

Come on, it's just an excuse! Ofc ESO is down sometimes, but you can still play the game normally.

deleted_user wrote:so this was pretty easy for me

im actually a native born speaker

have pretty gud english i think

why dont you all just try having english-speaking parents?

not that hard

wow

sir collen actually pretty gud?!?!

#oldjokes
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Re: Learning English

Post by EAGLEMUT »

A very insightful post on the "thinking in a language", Jerom. I agree 100%, different languages often have a different flow and you can't just translate stuff word-by-word, because it quite possibly makes no sense in the other language. That's also the reason I'm having a bit of trouble with Czech nowadays - I have an English phrase ready in my mind, but don't know the Czech equivalent.

Jerom wrote: Ive probably heard more in English aswell, although that is easier since almost all tv shows are in English.

This reminded me about another point I should mention. I assume foreign tv shows are presented in English on Dutch tv? Well, this is certainly not the case in Czech Republic, our nation is kind of famous for dubbing every show and movie ever, which also negatively contributes to the English levels in general population. Only recently this has gotten a bit better with at least some specialized channels broadcasting a few subtitled shows in original.
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Learning English

Post by pecelot »

Durokan wrote:
iNcog wrote:The Dutch just naturally all speak English for no reason, not sure why.


Not sure what it's like learning English for a non native speaker, but I would guess that dutch (and German) have a pretty substantial advantage for learning English as compared to other languages. I know for a fact that German and English share tons of roots and have loads of cognates. There are a bunch of tricks that I know, like changing a German V to an F, changing G to Y, changing T to D, etc, will make the language very easy. For instance, you can take the German word Tag (day) and change the T and G as described to have Day. You can change the g in "gestern" (yesterday) to a y to have "yestern" and you can guess the meaning. You can change Volk to Folk, Vier to Fier (four), etc. Almost every single word ending in an "ion" can be directly converted with a different pronounciation. (the T sound in all t-ion sounds the same as the z in Nazi, the short word for National, or "Nazional") There are many more easy cognates that I won't go into as this mainly relates to Dutch, where I don't know how many of these exist. I only assume most of these due because German and Dutch are pretty closely related. I can only assume this gives the Dutch an easier pass to the language than it does for Russian or Italian.

Hm, that's a pretty obvious fact I didn't take into consideration. You're right, there are a lot similarities between English and German, in terms of both vocabulary and grammar.

@Jerom so your route has been pretty similar to mine :D I'm not as good as you certainly, but yeah, YouTube helps a lot I feel. Out of around 40 channels I subcribe to, only 4—5 are Polish. Thanks for the reply as well :)

Jerom wrote:My spelling is mostly fine but not as good as it could be. It just bugs me that I cant write a tournament preview without a small amount of mistakes sneaking their way in.

*number, as mistakes are countable xD
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Re: Learning English

Post by iNcog »

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Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.

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