Deliciously Disgusting

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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by deleted_user0 »

Papist wrote:The agency has every incentive to get drug-dealing thugs off the street. They pollute our society with their filth, and I hope they rot in prison for what they have done. Anyone who makes money getting adults and children addicted to drugs deserves time behind bars.


but if said children become addicted to these drugs, and as a result do desperate and/or stupid things to maintain that drug habbit when they grow up, you think its perfectly fine to send them out hunting these vicious criminals without any form of training, and if they die in the process, oh well, its their own bloody fault because they agreed to it?
And its totally fine for the police to keep doing this?
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by momuuu »

Srsly, Im pretty sure that the point of this article is to show that whatever was done to this woman is disproportionate to her sentence.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

why can't the person just say I buy my drugs from "Mr. Big" then a trained team of undercover cops make their way into the organization, bug it, and use surveillance until the evidence is obtained.

I think we are also missing the point where people being recruited are not just informing on their own contacts but then are having to find 9 other dealers where they have to set up friends and stuff creating criminals. Reading the transcripts of how that officer managed his CI is just not good!

As long as not a violent offender we really need to reduce the penalties and scheduling of Marijuana, it can't be a Schedule 1 with its recognized medical use. It really is a remarkable plant that deserves respect and a responsible place in society.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Dolan »

Well, there has to be a downside to doing drugs. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

So, this can only happen to you if you're doing drugs and getting caught by the police. If you do that, there's no telling what will happen. You might end up in prison and get killed there.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Dolan »

@iNcog
how the fuck is a COP supposed to give a SENTENCE WITHOUT A FUCKING TRIAL???????????? HOLY SHIT THIS IS COMMON SENSE 101

It's an estimation, based on similar cases. When you do this job every day, you end up knowing a lot of things, such as how much is the sentence for a 2nd criminal offense of drug possession. Bitch should have just learned her lesson the first time she got caught. But, nooo, she was toooo smart for them, she just walked around with a stash of weed and some ecstasy and valium pills. You should have gotten your shit together before evolution did its thing.

On the 2nd offense they couldn't just let her go, it was obvious she was on a path to crime escalation. Then the police got greedy with the operation, they tried to get too much out of it, and imo it all sounded suspicious to the guys they were trying to catch. Some dumb bitch claimed she had more than 10000 dollars and she wanted to buy ecstasy pills with that? Huh, sure, sounds legit. Why don't you come where we want you to come and close the deal there... When they tell you that, wtf do you think does that mean? She should have backed down right there, started the engine and pushed the pedal to the metal. And don't look back. Better do prison than go to an isolated place somewhere in a forest to "close a deal" when you're just one single woman. It's just common sense.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by momuuu »

The law is the law but you cant knowingly risk someone's life as a out of jail ticket. If this was NL some heads would roll in the police department, but USA is pretty shitty so probably not going to happen.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Dolan »

#first-world-problems

In Malaysia if the police finds drugs on you, you get the death sentence.

I suppose, the police in the USA has become so desensitised to violence, since everyone can carry a weapon and stuff, that for them it's just part of ordinary life. GTA was basically not a game, it was a playable documentary about real life in the USA. So, yeah, send that bitch to get us close to the druglords. If she fails, we'll blame her, we'll say she failed to follow the instructions we gave her. We told her not to follow the drug gang anywhere else where we couldn't follow her. She didn't do that, so the operation failed. But then again, she was already a drug client, so she could have had the same fate if she just went there to buy, alone. Shit happens, if you're a drug addict.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
France iNcog
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Dolan »

You can't empathise with every piece of negative news on this planet or you end up a broken man at the end of the day.
Our brains weren't made to withstand the pressures of a globalised media awareness. You have to either ignore, filter out or just disconnect from caring about every piece of news.

What's next, are you going to go to gore sites and watch every video, because you need to be aware of every tragic death that occurred on this planet today and empathise with their pain?
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Papist »

umeu wrote:but if said children become addicted to these drugs, and as a result do desperate and/or stupid things to maintain that drug habbit when they grow up, you think its perfectly fine to send them out hunting these vicious criminals without any form of training, and if they die in the process, oh well, its their own bloody fault because they agreed to it?
And its totally fine for the police to keep doing this?


No, I don't think it's ok to send children out to do these dangerous things. But this girl isn't a child, so I'm not sure how that sentiment applies here. I think it's fine to let people make their own choices, yes. This girl wasn't forced to do anything. Why are people acting like she was some sort of helpless toddler who the police took advantage of? She made a choice, just like she made a choice to sell drugs and get other people hooked. If she felt uncomfortable, she should have just done her time.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Papist »

iNcog wrote:The problem with how this was handled is that the girl in question was thrust into a deadly situation. It was a clumsy gamble from the police which paid off with the loss of life on a girl who certainly did NOT deserve anything close to that.

There was no legal representative, no guidance from someone she could trust, no help that she could come clean and become a normal citizen. Nothing. It was coercion, 100%. What are the silly terms of this "deal"? "You don't get jail if we bust these guys?"

The only reason anyone think it's OK is because "the law says it's OK". Which is a fucking shitty reason. Your morals and ethics should be able to go past the law; that's what it means to be a human being. If some countries it's fine to by a pot-head, in others it's not. Are you telling me that you need to fall back on the law in order to know what's right or wrong? That's fucking stupid.

The punishment for breaking the law was also disproportionate to the crime. There aren't death penalties for speeding, so in NO CASE WHATSOEVER should a small time drug dealer be forced to literally fucking gamble their own lives.


tl;dr
There was no "choice" here. It is LYING and COERCION what's going on here. BOTH. YOU CAN'T EVEN FUCKING DENY IT. How the fuck is a COP supposed to give a SENTENCE WITHOUT A FUCKING TRIAL???????????? HOLY SHIT THIS IS COMMON SENSE 101

NO LAWYER. this is fucking insitutionalized blackmail omg looooooool?????!!!!!!!11???


Read it:

[spoiler=spoiler]
It's a practice we discovered that's going on across the country, largely under the radar -- and in some cases, with tragic consequences.

[Jason Weber: How's it going today?

Andrew Sadek: Alright.

Jason Weber: It's your birthday today?

Andrew Sadek: Yeah.

Jason Weber: Probably not what you want to be doing on your birthday, huh?

Andrew Sadek: (shakes head)]

What you're looking at is police footage of the making of a confidential informant. Narcotics officer Jason Weber is recruiting a college student who'd been caught making two small marijuana sales, to become a C.I.

[Jason Weber: Alright well you expressed interest that you probably want to help yourself out.

Andrew Sadek: Yeah.

Jason Weber: We're always trying to go up the chain. And so what we want to do is have them buy from their supplier, or suppliers.]

Weber is the chief of a four-county drug task force in eastern North Dakota and western Minnesota.

Lesley Stahl: How important do you think confidential informants are to your task?

Jason Weber: Yeah, confidential informants are really important to law enforcement across the country. They make our jobs easier just because they are already the ones that are out there that know who the drugs dealers are and rely on them.

Lesly Stahl: Are most of the kids that you're recruiting caught for marijuana sales?

Jason Weber: The big majority, yeah.

Weber's jurisdiction includes the campus of the North Dakota State College of Science, with some 3,000 students. Marijuana is now legal in four states and the District of Columbia, but not in North Dakota, where selling even a small amount on a campus is a Class A felony, with a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison, a fine of $20,000, or both.

This young man, Andrew Sadek, was caught on tape by another confidential informant making two sales -- for a total of $80. Weber has called Sadek in before charging him to present a choice: agree to work as a C.I., wear a wire and make undercover drug buys from three people, twice each -- or be charged with two Class A felonies.

[Jason Weber: Potentially the max is 40 years in prison, $40,000 fine. You understand that?

Andrew Sadek: Yeah.

Jason Weber: OK. Obviously you're probably not gonna get 40 years, but is it a good possibility that you're gonna get some prison time, if you don't help yourself out? Yeah, there is, 'k? That's probably not a way to start off your young adult life and career, right? (Sadek nods)]

Sadek took the deal. Weber told us most students do. Part of the agreement he signed: keep the whole thing strictly to himself.

Jason Weber: You can't tell anybody you're working for me. Obvious -- for obvious reasons. (Sadek nods)]

An award-winning student of electrical technology, Andrew Sadek did as he was told: never told any of his close friends about being an informant; never called a lawyer;
[/spoiler]


Writing the same thing over and over again doesn't make it any more true, even if you do write it in bold caps. She wasn't coerced and she wasn't sentenced. She was offered a deal in which she would provide a service in exchange for more lenient charges at trial. She could have just as easily have done her time for what she did, but she chose not to. That is not coercion.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by deleted_user0 »

Papist wrote:
umeu wrote:but if said children become addicted to these drugs, and as a result do desperate and/or stupid things to maintain that drug habbit when they grow up, you think its perfectly fine to send them out hunting these vicious criminals without any form of training, and if they die in the process, oh well, its their own bloody fault because they agreed to it?
And its totally fine for the police to keep doing this?


No, I don't think it's ok to send children out to do these dangerous things. But this girl isn't a child, so I'm not sure how that sentiment applies here. I think it's fine to let people make their own choices, yes. This girl wasn't forced to do anything. Why are people acting like she was some sort of helpless toddler who the police took advantage of? She made a choice, just like she made a choice to sell drugs and get other people hooked. If she felt uncomfortable, she should have just done her time.


you misunderstood my argument. you said drugdealers are bad because they get our youth addicted to drugs. im talking about children, because its a fair assumption to make that she got addicted to pot in her teens, perhaps she was 18, perhaps even a young adult and 20. the point is, these are still people that are groing up, most people do the dumbest shit in their early 20's. so its not like she has no responsibility, im not claiming that, im just that she is a victim of the druglords that destroy people with their drugs, but you say its totally fine for her to suffer for that by the hands of people that combat the druglords. you have a super narrow idea about how people get into this in the first place. many of those evil drug sellers are people who come from places where they are getting hooked on drugs as kids and then sell it later, some get hooked on it as adults, and then start to sell it to maintain their habbit, at this point, you already cant expect them to behave as reasonable intelligent adults. there are very few people who start to sell drugs without ever having been a druggy, its not breaking bad...

you keep going on about the fact that she had a choice, but you completely disregard the point that we make, that she was offered that choice, and she never shouldve been offered that choice to begin with. Why? because the way that choice was presented to her, it was just very likely to result in her death, and the police, as professionals they ought to be, should have realised this and not given her THAT choice. And I'm quite sure that they didnt inform her properly about the risks, because no sane person would accept such a risk if they really understood it. Obviously there is a point to be made that at the point she was, she couldnt be considered sane any longer. Which is all the more reason to NOT have offered her that choice.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by deleted_user0 »

Papist wrote:
iNcog wrote:The problem with how this was handled is that the girl in question was thrust into a deadly situation. It was a clumsy gamble from the police which paid off with the loss of life on a girl who certainly did NOT deserve anything close to that.

There was no legal representative, no guidance from someone she could trust, no help that she could come clean and become a normal citizen. Nothing. It was coercion, 100%. What are the silly terms of this "deal"? "You don't get jail if we bust these guys?"

The only reason anyone think it's OK is because "the law says it's OK". Which is a fucking shitty reason. Your morals and ethics should be able to go past the law; that's what it means to be a human being. If some countries it's fine to by a pot-head, in others it's not. Are you telling me that you need to fall back on the law in order to know what's right or wrong? That's fucking stupid.

The punishment for breaking the law was also disproportionate to the crime. There aren't death penalties for speeding, so in NO CASE WHATSOEVER should a small time drug dealer be forced to literally fucking gamble their own lives.


tl;dr
There was no "choice" here. It is LYING and COERCION what's going on here. BOTH. YOU CAN'T EVEN FUCKING DENY IT. How the fuck is a COP supposed to give a SENTENCE WITHOUT A FUCKING TRIAL???????????? HOLY SHIT THIS IS COMMON SENSE 101

NO LAWYER. this is fucking insitutionalized blackmail omg looooooool?????!!!!!!!11???


Read it:

[spoiler=spoiler]
It's a practice we discovered that's going on across the country, largely under the radar -- and in some cases, with tragic consequences.

[Jason Weber: How's it going today?

Andrew Sadek: Alright.

Jason Weber: It's your birthday today?

Andrew Sadek: Yeah.

Jason Weber: Probably not what you want to be doing on your birthday, huh?

Andrew Sadek: (shakes head)]

What you're looking at is police footage of the making of a confidential informant. Narcotics officer Jason Weber is recruiting a college student who'd been caught making two small marijuana sales, to become a C.I.

[Jason Weber: Alright well you expressed interest that you probably want to help yourself out.

Andrew Sadek: Yeah.

Jason Weber: We're always trying to go up the chain. And so what we want to do is have them buy from their supplier, or suppliers.]

Weber is the chief of a four-county drug task force in eastern North Dakota and western Minnesota.

Lesley Stahl: How important do you think confidential informants are to your task?

Jason Weber: Yeah, confidential informants are really important to law enforcement across the country. They make our jobs easier just because they are already the ones that are out there that know who the drugs dealers are and rely on them.

Lesly Stahl: Are most of the kids that you're recruiting caught for marijuana sales?

Jason Weber: The big majority, yeah.

Weber's jurisdiction includes the campus of the North Dakota State College of Science, with some 3,000 students. Marijuana is now legal in four states and the District of Columbia, but not in North Dakota, where selling even a small amount on a campus is a Class A felony, with a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison, a fine of $20,000, or both.

This young man, Andrew Sadek, was caught on tape by another confidential informant making two sales -- for a total of $80. Weber has called Sadek in before charging him to present a choice: agree to work as a C.I., wear a wire and make undercover drug buys from three people, twice each -- or be charged with two Class A felonies.

[Jason Weber: Potentially the max is 40 years in prison, $40,000 fine. You understand that?

Andrew Sadek: Yeah.

Jason Weber: OK. Obviously you're probably not gonna get 40 years, but is it a good possibility that you're gonna get some prison time, if you don't help yourself out? Yeah, there is, 'k? That's probably not a way to start off your young adult life and career, right? (Sadek nods)]

Sadek took the deal. Weber told us most students do. Part of the agreement he signed: keep the whole thing strictly to himself.

Jason Weber: You can't tell anybody you're working for me. Obvious -- for obvious reasons. (Sadek nods)]

An award-winning student of electrical technology, Andrew Sadek did as he was told: never told any of his close friends about being an informant; never called a lawyer;
[/spoiler]


Writing the same thing over and over again doesn't make it any more true, even if you do write it in bold caps. She wasn't coerced and she wasn't sentenced. She was offered a deal in which she would provide a service in exchange for more lenient charges at trial. She could have just as easily have done her time for what she did, but she chose not to. That is not coercion.


do you think she would have agreed to it if the cops told her, well you can become an informant and have 75% chance of dying (or even if the chance wouldve been 50% or even 10%) do you think she would have taken that over possibly 4 years in prison? I doubt it. All the more reason to be suspicious about the practice these cops are keeping.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Dolan »

The key point in this whole story is why did she follow the druglords' indications to meet them in a different place than the one they already agreed on. Because in that place, she was monitored by 20 police agents. Once she left that place, the police lost her trace. That decision to leave the place where they were supposed to meet and go to some other unknown location is what cost her life. That stupid decision was entirely hers. Nobody held a gun to her head when she agreed to follow the druglords to a new location. I mean, what could happen to a single woman with more than 10000 bucks on her and surrounded by a gang of druglords? She was perfectly safe, she had a wire in her purse...

Lance Block: She was caught by the Tallahassee Police Department and told that if she didn't become a confidential informant, she was looking at four years in prison.

She signed up, and a few weeks later was sent out to make her first undercover drug buy. It was to be one of the biggest in Tallahassee's recent history -- 1,500 ecstasy pills, an ounce and a half of cocaine, and a gun.

Lesley Stahl: Had she ever dealt in any of those things?

Lance Block: No.

Lesley Stahl: A gun? Had she ever fired a gun?

Lance Block: No.Rachel was a pothead. And Rachel sold marijuana to her friends out of her home, but Rachel wasn't dealing in ecstasy or cocaine, much less -- of course not weapons.

Rachel drove her car alone to meet the dealers in this park with $13,000 cash from the police and a wire in her purse. She was to be monitored by some 20 officers. But then the dealers changed the location of the deal, so Rachel drove away from the police staging area, and that's when things went terribly wrong.

Lance Block: The drug dealers have her out on this road. One drug dealer gets into the car with her --
Lesley Stahl: And the 20 cops who were nearby?
Lance Block: They lost her.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by iNcog »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by Papist »

iNcog wrote:are u for real? what kind of sheltered world u in? it's fucking blackmail


I don't think you understand what blackmail is if you think being provided with two consequences and asked to choose one qualifies.
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

It is black mail, its saying hey "I wont do my job and prosecute you under the law IF you do this job for me" no different than someone discovering a dealer and saying " I wont turn you in IF you do X Y Z. "
Even with blackmail people have a choice... Just prosecute the people, and hire real informants to do that work. That is the legal responsibility of the agents.... to do their job. What gives them the power to act as a judge and create an optional sentence?

what is your understanding of black mail>?
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Re: Deliciously Disgusting

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dolan wrote:The key point in this whole story is why did she follow the druglords' indications to meet them in a different place than the one they already agreed on. Because in that place, she was monitored by 20 police agents. Once she left that place, the police lost her trace. That decision to leave the place where they were supposed to meet and go to some other unknown location is what cost her life. That stupid decision was entirely hers. Nobody held a gun to her head when she agreed to follow the druglords to a new location. I mean, what could happen to a single woman with more than 10000 bucks on her and surrounded by a gang of druglords? She was perfectly safe, she had a wire in her purse...

Lance Block: She was caught by the Tallahassee Police Department and told that if she didn't become a confidential informant, she was looking at four years in prison.

She signed up, and a few weeks later was sent out to make her first undercover drug buy. It was to be one of the biggest in Tallahassee's recent history -- 1,500 ecstasy pills, an ounce and a half of cocaine, and a gun.

Lesley Stahl: Had she ever dealt in any of those things?

Lance Block: No.

Lesley Stahl: A gun? Had she ever fired a gun?

Lance Block: No.Rachel was a pothead. And Rachel sold marijuana to her friends out of her home, but Rachel wasn't dealing in ecstasy or cocaine, much less -- of course not weapons.

Rachel drove her car alone to meet the dealers in this park with $13,000 cash from the police and a wire in her purse. She was to be monitored by some 20 officers. But then the dealers changed the location of the deal, so Rachel drove away from the police staging area, and that's when things went terribly wrong.

Lance Block: The drug dealers have her out on this road. One drug dealer gets into the car with her --
Lesley Stahl: And the 20 cops who were nearby?
Lance Block: They lost her.


are you stupid?

being an undercover cop takes alot of training, they sent her without any. its the polices responsibility to have prepared her for such a situation, and make sure she would be able to handle the pressure in that case and not change location. apparantly they failed at that as well, and they cant even tail a person properly either. what are they being paid for?

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